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Why Elizabeth Holmes Was Convicted (and Also Acquitted)

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Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos was convicted on some charges but no others. Why?
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19 Jan 2022

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Comentários 2 964
LegalEagle
LegalEagle 4 meses atrás
⚖What should I cover next? 💲Start investing with Wealthfront today! legaleagle.link/wealthfront
Fen Tamulonis
Fen Tamulonis 2 meses atrás
I think it would be cool to see an episode on patent infringement maybe KSR vs. Teleflex
Maksim Bauer
Maksim Bauer 3 meses atrás
LegalEagle, will you do any more reactions on movies such as Marshall, to kill a mockingbird?
John Smith
John Smith 3 meses atrás
0:58 Silicon Valley Investors? Most of her investors were political bigwigs like George Shultz and Henry Kissinger - - definitely not from Silicon Valley
PurpleBooty2324
PurpleBooty2324 3 meses atrás
Can you please react to Gifted. Staring Chris Evans. It's a great movie and it has a lot of law scenes in it and I really want to know if this situation could actually happen
Christopher Steele
Christopher Steele 3 meses atrás
the desposition episode of the office
scifisyko
scifisyko 4 meses atrás
It’s wild that the person known for being adept at manipulation absolutely did the exact same thing to the jurors and it totally worked.
Edgy Anole
Edgy Anole 17 dias atrás
@theendofit not really anymore except white women that's true but I don't think it's color and that stuff that happens to black people doesn't happen that much anymore and sure it might be easier for white people to get away with stuff
Edgy Anole
Edgy Anole 17 dias atrás
@Aaron Cabrera yeah your right but it needs to change
Edgy Anole
Edgy Anole 17 dias atrás
@theendofit can you guy please stop acting like white people are bad they aren't skin color doesn't change what a human is
Strong Medicine
Strong Medicine 4 meses atrás
Here is the truly crazy thing about the Theranos scandal. Holmes was from Stanford, and the Theranos headquarters is a mile from campus. Yet there is not one physician or scientist here who believed her technology was legit. How investors got played for millions without even talking to an independent scientist, when there were 1000s of local scientists to choose from within spitting distance from Theranos is beyond me. It's hard to feel too much sympathy for someone so wealthy who is that reckless with their wealth. EDIT: Another comment here mentioned Ian Gibbons as a counterexample. (BRvid is not letting me directly reply the comment) Gibbons was not affiliated with Stanford, and as he worked for Theranos, he was hardly in a position to give investors an independent opinion on the technology.
Lips
Lips 3 dias atrás
@Strong Medicine Very much true. But the thought-process of the people involved is pretty much the same. No regard for anything but the numbers, the names, the hype.
Lips
Lips 3 dias atrás
I don't think this is recklesness, I think people look at the numbers and decide on that, rather on the company. This just proves, as well as the Faraday-truck debacle, that people only care about money and look at numbers and not anything else. Reminds me of crypto. The societal value is 0, but it makes people money so it works.
Whirled Publishing
Whirled Publishing Mês atrás
@Colton Riffle Study the evidence if you want - or don't - the choice is yours. If you cared about the truth enough to do the decades of research in dozens of languages, you would have done it already - like I did - so you've already exposed yourself - I have no interest in replying to you.
Mark Davis
Mark Davis 4 meses atrás
Elizabeth Holmes is punished for making fools of rich investors but is acquitted for causing real harm to patients.
Thomas Holden
Thomas Holden 28 dias atrás
You can sell quackery to the riff raff, but don't dare pick a rich man's pocket.
Isles of Shoals
Isles of Shoals Mês atrás
Yup. The jury got that wrong
KP Music
KP Music 4 meses atrás
Wild that putting people's lives at risk by misdiagnosing them is less important to the law than ripping off millionaire investors
Anton Liakhovitch
Anton Liakhovitch 18 dias atrás
@John Smith I think OP is referring to the small amount of time spent by the prosecution on this part of the case.
John Smith
John Smith Mês atrás
That's the jury's call
Tim Lawrence
Tim Lawrence Mês atrás
Also it’s easier to prove financial fraud than it is to prove what someone did or did not know. They can create a paper trail proving that she mishandled investments and lied about preliminary tests working, but it’s much harder to prove that she knew the technology wasn’t viable. But All Night Cats’ point is most of the use for sure.
All Night Cats
All Night Cats 3 meses atrás
@KP Music that one I'm less sure of. If the tests were recommended and administered by professionals then yes. But, I'm not sure if they were ever actually sold in stores without being behind the counter of the drug store.
KP Music
KP Music 3 meses atrás
@All Night Cats oh fr did those cover all the drug store tests and self-ordered ones too?
Partly Cloudy
Partly Cloudy 4 meses atrás
As someone who works in a lab, this whole case annoys me to no end. They asked doctors and investors, not pathologists and laboratory staff. Her claims of being able to perform a large battery of tests on a few drops of blood are a pipedream. She annoys the ever loving hell out of me.
Sean Raines
Sean Raines 2 meses atrás
@Nancy Quon yeah, all the men believed her and the women didn't. Because simpin' ain't easy and that's what they were doing. Hell she didn't even need the voice. Just be charismatic.
Abs
Abs 3 meses atrás
Sounds like they had a lot of yes men/women turning a blind eye and backing the claims until someone stepped forward.
Chemist
Chemist 3 meses atrás
I understand where you're coming from, however scientists in the field usually look down on breakthrough discoveries. Maybe this isn't a problem in the modern era anymore?
Jann D
Jann D 3 meses atrás
@Self Indulged Hypocrisy sure, I was more commenting on the fact that you guessed who would have the relevant knowledge to know this was bunk, and how many people that would be.It’s more areas of expertise and more thousands of people than you mentioned. If I were about to invest millions into a technology as ground breaking as this, as someone with means I would reach out to someone with relevant experience and get their opinion. But that’s not how Wall Street investors work, they know better than everyone about everything apparently.
The5lacker
The5lacker 4 meses atrás
"She genuinely believed she was helping people." No she didn't. She might genuinely believe she COULD EVENTUALLY help people, but if you knowingly lie about WHETHER OR NOT YOU USED YOUR OWN TESTS you probably don't genuinely believe your tests CURRENTLY help anyone.
FaerieDust
FaerieDust Mês atrás
@muuubiee I mean, you kind of do. No formal degrees, sure, but you need knowledge. You don't need to finish a degree in medical engineering to invent new medical technology, but you need to have that knowledge. Holmes basically claimed that she did (how else could she have invented her machine?), and for some insane reason rich people just took her word for it and threw money at her.
Cassy Nedelisky
Cassy Nedelisky Mês atrás
She genuinely believed that she could become very rich… this was never about helping people
muuubiee
muuubiee Mês atrás
@ArtemisScribe Completely different things. You don't need any qualification to be an inventor.
Interloper 80
Interloper 80 4 meses atrás
Maybe next time a 19 year old with 1 year of undergrad chemistry claims to have invented the 'most disruptive device in the history of medicine' which defies the laws of physics, people will ask more questions before investing...
Shane Vossepoel
Shane Vossepoel 7 dias atrás
Ha! You optimistic person you. Wherever there are snake oil salesman, there will be customers.
ZanathKariashi
ZanathKariashi 12 dias atrás
@Kabelo Moiloa it does. The only way the machine would ever be able to run properly was if the server admin of the universe turned off the physics for a little bit. (specifically to function properlyit would need to violate to several of the thermodynamic and electro-static laws to actually function the way she was claiming it could work). Too much generated heat in too tiny of space as well as the sheer number of things that needed testing made it impossible to ever get accurate readings (the edisons couldn't even accurately perform a single test and most of the tests couldn't work at all due to so much electrical interference) AND that's on top of the sample sizes being so diluted that even running them in dedicated 3rd party machines (the ones the theranos was supposed to be replacing) for each step had to run some tests multiple times just to try and verify the results were accurate because of just how bad the sampling was. And some of those were still wrong just because of samples simply not being good enough.
Kabelo Moiloa
Kabelo Moiloa Mês atrás
Source: I have a physics undergrad.
Kabelo Moiloa
Kabelo Moiloa Mês atrás
Don't think it violates the 'laws of physics' though lol. :p
Luke S
Luke S 4 meses atrás
Super frustrating that they said she believed in her products and vision and thought she was genuinely helping. Scientists absolutely do not think or work like that. Even if you believe in the dream, the dream cannot and does not materialize nor can be marketed until the data supports it, and to look past that in the name of a plausible long term vision is absolutely fraudulent from a scientific perspective if not a legal one.
Meepknight
Meepknight 3 meses atrás
@Leto2ndAtreides i will give you god... im a priest... please invest in me pls...
Luke S
Luke S 3 meses atrás
@Leto2ndAtreides sure. Youre allowed to make unrealistic demands on your team, to be optimistic, and to sell your vision. Thats not the problem. The problem is that you can only sell your vision as exactly that- a vision. You absolutely CANNOT put up a prototype that doesnt achieve everything your vision states and advertise it as such because you really really want it to. Theres no creative side step there, the research was definitive or your tech is not good enough yet. You CANNOT put out a product with false claims and say its in pursuit of investments and achieving a goal.
Leto2ndAtreides
Leto2ndAtreides 3 meses atrás
It's more that from a business perspective, founders have to maintain optimism to get the runway to eventually succeed. Without that attitude, very little would get done. In this case, her style of doing things was generating funding for scientists to try and innovate. If she hadn't been in the healthcare space, her style of doing things might have succeeded. Steve Jobs also often made seemingly impossible demands of his team... But that ended up working out in key areas.
Kyle Mangan
Kyle Mangan 4 meses atrás
There's something weird about the fact that she was essentially acquitted on the other charges because the jurors felt she genuinely believes she's doing the right thing, and the fact that she may receive a lower sentence based on the fact that she's young and has the capacity to change. It's not explicitly a contradiction, but it's weird that the assumptions that "she still believes in this thing" and that "she'll never do it again" are somehow both working in her favor.
Cubba
Cubba Mês atrás
It's alright to defraud patients' test results. Only when you threaten investor profits are there any consequences in our society. :
Greg
Greg 4 meses atrás
Don't forget she played the "abuse" card from her partner in crime.
B40 W40W40
B40 W40W40 4 meses atrás
@stischer47 Right? This whole thing is sickening and mind-blowing.
stischer47
stischer47 4 meses atrás
In other words, as long as you "think" you are doing the right thing, then it's OK. Why did we have the Nuremberg Trials?
Jed292
Jed292 4 meses atrás
"well I lied to everyone to get my product sold which would have made me a large fortune, I knew it didn't work and that it not working could seriously harm people... ...but I only wanted to help, honest!" "Well how can we convict such a nice person?"
Willy N
Willy N 3 meses atrás
This is a sad story from the inside. Holmes was in delusional in every conceivable way. I got to speak with Tyler Schultz for my college newspaper and to hear of the lies she spun and the aggressive tactics she used to keep them from unwinding…well, it’s sad that she only has those four convictions.
Benjamín Prieto Palacios
Oh, there's definitely gonna be a movie made about this. Also, I can GUARANTEE that someone out there is claiming that "big pharma corporations" are trying to discredit Holmes to not lose money 🙄
Surf Casters
Surf Casters 14 dias atrás
A movie would not be that good. This story has so much going on that you would have to skip a lot of things just to make it fit in a 3 hr+ movie.
Razia Sultana
Razia Sultana 25 dias atrás
Isn’t there already one in the works?
carlos rivas
carlos rivas Mês atrás
@wahoo4uva He said movie, there is no way hollyweird is letting this go so easily.
wahoo4uva
wahoo4uva 2 meses atrás
Hulu recently released their original TV series about her. It’s called Dropout.
Matt B
Matt B 4 meses atrás
14:29 The procecution needed to show intent to defraud patients?? She ordered her lab to dilute blood samples. Yes, her bogus claims of only neededing a "nano-tainer" of blood bit her in the behind. With such small samples the myriad tests she claimed were possible that used reagent chemistry that fundamentally destroyed the sample left her labs inoperable. She needed to dilute it or tell the truth of needing larger samples. What did her labs dilute it with? Who knows? Tap water, saline, alcohol your guess is as good as any. Any LVN or RN who has drawn blood for lab work will know how egregious this action is. Lab samples must be as pure as possible and sterile or the whole test is false and must be trashed. Seeing as these diagnosis are critical to life preserving medical choices and the need to dilute was one born of holmes' false claims and dedication to maintaining a facade of only needing a low sample size, how could any court with a modicum of medical knowledge not see this as deliberate, malicious, intent to commit fraud?
Alltid Sömnig
Alltid Sömnig 3 meses atrás
@BigHenFor Exactly. The education in many English-speaking countries is... troubling, to say the least. People think that "guilty"="did it" when that isn't what it means at all in most cases.
BigHenFor
BigHenFor 4 meses atrás
Medical knowledge is not a given in a jury of one's peers. It is upto the prosecution to provide the evidence in a way that the jury understands. To you it's obvious, but to someone off the street it isn't.
BigHenFor
BigHenFor 4 meses atrás
Criminal charges stand on two legs: 1. Actus Reus=Guilty Act (criminal act) and 2. Mens Rea=guilty mind= criminal intent. If the prosecution fail to convince the jury of both legs, the person cannot be found guilty of the crime. Moreover, the bar is set even higher in criminal law by the burden proof. The jury must be sure "beyond reasonable doubt" that the defendant had done the act and intended to do it. If there is any doubt on either leg based on the evidence then they must not convict. The prosecution failed to remove any reasonable doubt on defrauding consumers. That was down to their strategy in how they provided evidence to the jury. But she's still going to jail for a long time, and her child will not have her mother to raise her or provide for her care. So, we are where we are.
Sherwood Dogs
Sherwood Dogs 4 meses atrás
Holmes had a talent for flattering wealthy old men who are concerned with their own health and mortality. That's it. I also find it amusing that she is, or was, repeatedly compared to Jobs and Gates - neither of whom did the actual "inventing" part of their respective companies' successes. She was either knowingly putting lives at risk selling diagnostic testing that didn't work, or she was grossly negligent in not ensuring her system was at least as accurate as it's competition. Negligence or mendacity. I am sorry for the people who's lives have been harmed by this woman and her enablers, I couldn't care less about the rich men who lost money.
Felix
Felix 4 meses atrás
Theranos' disaster speaks less of the persuasiveness of Elizabeth Holmes, but more about the absurdity that is Wall Street Investing. Everything is about fancy marketing words, be it blood-testing, nfts or the metaverse. A group of ultra-wealthy individuals who are so stuck in their little bubble they fail to apply the most basic rigour to anything they do.
carlos rivas
carlos rivas Mês atrás
@Radical Nation no one said they were, that is clearly your own bias.
SoulDevoured
SoulDevoured Mês atrás
@platypuspracticus it's not just compensation. One of them screwing up could cost thousands of jobs and hurting a market. A couple of them screwing up really really badly could tank the whole economy. There's a reason that the government went from free market to increasing restrictions like anti monopoly and anti trust laws. Having all your eggs in a few baskets is very bad for an economy. Investors know this. So why we as a society and the government seems to have forgotten... idk. But you see the cracks. Supply chain issues, labor shortages, a few companies under the directions of a few sending the whole economy into a recession in 08... food deserts and other under served communities due to small businesses not being able to keep afloat. More is not always better but having a small sect of the population with an overwhelming portion of the wealth is bad for the economy in general. Along with many other things. And again, worst case scenario, they can screw up bad enough to send us into a depression. Which sending the US into a depression basically sends the world into a recession at the very least.
Chaotic Truth Live
Chaotic Truth Live 3 meses atrás
I made a livestream about this horrible woman.
medexamtoolsdotcom
medexamtoolsdotcom 3 meses atrás
Cough cough tesla cough cough hyperloop cough cough elonmuskisaconman cough cough
Leto2ndAtreides
Leto2ndAtreides 3 meses atrás
It's more that you invest in the opportunities that have a chance for massive returns... In other words game changers. A very large proportion of VC funded startups fail. And that is fine. It's made up for by those that succeed. In this case though, there was an extra dose of deception beyond founders just being overly optimistic usually.
A H
A H 3 meses atrás
This one hit close to home for me. I could have died as a result of a test I got from Theranos while I had a serious health condition.
John Albert
John Albert 3 meses atrás
The takeaway: you can get away with fraud if you're a good enough con-man to convince a jury that you really believed you weren't doing anything wrong. Seems like a pretty big loophole to me.
Virusnzz
Virusnzz 4 meses atrás
Thanks for the great overview. It's always interesting to see how different kinds of crimes lead to drastically different sentences. I realise it's not the same, but I bet if you added up the sentences of people convicted of burglary up until the net amount stolen by them was the same as the amount Holmes defrauded from her investors, it would be in the hundreds of times longer. You can argue that they are materially different crimes, but the lesson remains. If you want to steal millions of dollars and minimise your sentence if you get caught, this is the way to do it!
Nivola 1953
Nivola 1953 4 meses atrás
My father used to tell me “don’t try to know a page more than the book”. For Theranos this translates into, if that was really possible why none of the scientists, engineers and doctors much more knowledgeable than Elisabeth thought of it before. Possible answers a) they have interest in maintaining the cash cow b) they are not used to think out of the box c) they are in a conspiracy to keep you…. ignorant?(?) but there is also another reason that Potholer54 (another channel) always mentioned d) they know something that you don’t, because they studied and worked on it and you didn’t.
Dan B
Dan B 4 meses atrás
So she changed her entire personality to manipulate investors, going so far as to change her mannerisms voice and looks. Then on the trial she suddenly transforms into this likeable person that all the jurors genuinely "believe in" Sorry but sounds like she just manipulated them as well. And they fell for it.
ozmartian
ozmartian 3 meses atrás
@Στελιος Πεππας Γεια σας από την Αυστραλία
Blue Fault
Blue Fault 3 meses atrás
@Michael Zero a oke pretty fascinating. But nah she prob aint a psychopath i change my personality/character or my act more than my appearance wouldn’t be a psychopath me nah a
Blue Fault
Blue Fault 3 meses atrás
@Michael Zero idk the real story of ted bundy except that he killed a bunch of people explain
Christopher McAnally
Christopher McAnally 4 meses atrás
An amazing con artist… Even the jury mostly bought it.
doug randall
doug randall 4 meses atrás
Why didn't anyone notice that she had no one on the board who knew anything about Science, Pharmaceuticals or technology? Kind of a red flag.
dick castle
dick castle 2 meses atrás
this is a medidical company....lets put some war criminals on the board, I bet that'll help
Dean Just Dean
Dean Just Dean 4 meses atrás
"Most blood tests could not be done with just a few drops of blood." Thank you for saving me the effort of commenting about this. It is literally something that everyone who has had diabetes for long enough knows on one level or another. The only reason blood glucose and ketones can be tested for with a few drops of blood is because one is constant, pervasive in blood (because your brain *needs* it in order to function), and the other will show up in minute traces in blood if present in the body. Plus the presence of ketones at all can be a sign that you need to talk to a doctor ASAP. I can sum up Holmes with one quote from a great song. "There's a ton of nothing in your empty eyes." I have never seen a person who broadcasts so hard in just her face that she cares nothing about anyone outside of her circle, her monkeysphere. I am really amazed that her lawyers let her take the stand. Had I been her lawyer, I would have pushed her into a chair, told her in my strongest voice to look at me, and told her the way she blankly stares at the camera screams "antisocial personality disorder" to the instincts of anyone who has lived for more than eighteen years.
Steve T
Steve T 3 meses atrás
She conned the jurors just enough, same as anyone else weak minded enough to believe her and her blatant damaging lies.
Keelia Silvis
Keelia Silvis 4 meses atrás
I'm a former neuroscience lab tech, and I can confirm that EVERYONE in lab science knew this was nonsense from the beginning. But of course no one listened to the actual technicians until far too late during this saga. 🙄
SherryMarion
SherryMarion Mês atrás
@Mamma Jamma They wanted to get in on the next Apple or Amazon. They didn't care what it was.
Sean Raines
Sean Raines 2 meses atrás
@PungiFungi to off someone just because they were criminal or negligent never made sense to me. Are we not doing the same thing their doing? Just lock them up for life. Besides if the theory I heard and read from more than one source is correct she would need significant psychotherapy. That where she wanted to end up at would help people. The ends justifies the means. Which is a sickness. Her mother was jealous of the psychiatrist they lived near and constantly pushed her beyond normal limits.
Sean Raines
Sean Raines 2 meses atrás
@PungiFungi someone did die
Emil Muller Quintanar
Emil Muller Quintanar 3 meses atrás
So the person who literally falsified information, used logos of organizations that were not part of her team to lend her credibility, tried to go around the FDA, etc etc etc, got a free pass on most of the charges because the jury "believed" she was genuine? Do they not feel stupid?
asdf
asdf 3 meses atrás
Vetting process for jurors should really be more involved, especially for those high level cases.
SherryMarion
SherryMarion Mês atrás
Today's Thursday. New episode tonight!
Amberscion
Amberscion 4 meses atrás
Being charismatic and convincing got her off of all the charges of ripping off the common man. The little people without any power who she hurt. But no amount of charisma could keep her out of hot water for ripping off gullible, but wealthy and connected, investors. In the USA that is a crime you'll always be held to account for.
noble_experiment
noble_experiment 3 meses atrás
“In the disease progression process…” it still fathoms me how no one ever called BS on how unclear and vague her ideas/goals were. Even in that Time profile they did on her, I remember the writer describing her explanation “vague” or something like that.
Sharai Rodriguez
Sharai Rodriguez 4 dias atrás
how are jurors allowed to say things like the fact they couldn’t convict her cause she was likable??? that sounds illegal. and has nothing to do with her crimes🥴
Apryl Van Ryn
Apryl Van Ryn 3 meses atrás
Fun fact, that's Holmes's stage voice. She intentionally tried to sound more masculine so her investors would trust her more.
SherryMarion
SherryMarion Mês atrás
Professor Phyllis Gardener knew Holmes when she was a student at Stanford and says she had a typical young woman's voice at the time. She met her later and was taken aback at the new low one.
Una Haller
Una Haller 3 meses atrás
fun fact: my mom used to work for her dad in the government. he talked about his “successful” daughter A LOT and pushed the sort of hubris that got her into trouble. yikes!
Janét Cournand
Janét Cournand 18 dias atrás
She "genuinely" wanted to help people by releasing a product that she KNOWS does not work and making numerous attempts to cover up evidence that showed that? Ok.....
Skippy the Magnificent
Skippy the Magnificent 4 meses atrás
The jurors found her likeable...and _that's_ how these people continue to con people *a lot longer* than they should. Sad to see the jurors fall head long into it. Makes me question the validity of having regular people decide people's fate and punishment.
Dineen Serpa
Dineen Serpa 3 dias atrás
@SoulDevoured People who can afford the money and time off to serve on juries are not my peers. I have been called to jury(edited for typo) duty several times. You see who they are, what their biases are, blind spots etc. Elderly people with a junior high education. Stay at home moms who watch too much Dr Oz. People who went straight from their parent's home to the military and immediately believe everything the cops say. Evidence is over their heads. My dad was a CSI for 30 years. I don't pretend to know everything he did, but the average juror knows less. Holmes convinced her jury, the same way she convinced shareholders. She's non threatening and semi pretty.
Joana Barros
Joana Barros 20 dias atrás
@SoulDevoured I somewhat agree with you. I also think our educational system needs to be re-tuned to make us better citizens and that the average person is stupid. But in this case, I think it just proves how good Elizabeth Holmes is at deceiving people. Theranos board once lost faith in her and wanted to remove her. But in a single meeting, she convinced them not only to let her stay but give her more control over the company. She was already being prosecuted when she met her now-husband. He is the heir to a billion-dollar hotel chain who went to MIT and she still convinced him she was a good person. She fooled a lot of people. She is very good at manipulating people.
SoulDevoured
SoulDevoured Mês atrás
there's a reason we have the jury of your peers trail but if the average person is stupid and corrupt then a judge can be too. The jury just spreads out the chances of conflicts of interest. I really think our education system should be retuned to make us better citizens. Better at understanding each other and those around us and the systems we are involved in.
Noir Cygne
Noir Cygne 2 meses atrás
Yeah. The judge or a bench of judges should make the decisions.
gunzakimbo
gunzakimbo 4 meses atrás
"Although the panel thought that Holmes' credibility was low, they also believe that she was genuine," The most American statement ever. All right guys, I know she's lied about everything up until this point. She's GOTTA be telling the truth this time, RIGHT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Jonah Falcon
Jonah Falcon 3 meses atrás
Juror #6: "She seemed so nice, so I couldn't convict." Juror #6, that's what a con artist does. That's why "con" is short for CONFIDENCE.
KeyserSoze26B
KeyserSoze26B 4 meses atrás
This is whats so frustrating about having it all come down to 12 of your peers. Like how Juror 6 said “well she was so likable and had such a positive dream”. YOU ARE NOT THERE TO JUDGE IF SHES LIKABLE! IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU THINK SHE HAD A POSITIVE F*CKING DREAM! Its like 90% jurors never actually make a decision strictly on the evidence and if it was a crime, they all just make their decision on if they’re likable or not. The fact that juror even said that and doesn’t see anything wrong with that is mind blowing 🤯 Its scary knowing your life can be in the hands of 12 of your “peers” or the life of someone who hurt you or someone you love because Ill go back to one of my favorite George Carlin quotes... “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that”
Mr.H
Mr.H 3 meses atrás
I love that this is the world we live in. "Let's trust them; they seem so likeable, and why would we need to verify their claims? It would be phenomenally stupid of them to submit machines they know won't work." Fraud: Hehehehehe...
Slow Loris
Slow Loris 4 meses atrás
Dudes will give millions to a biotech company with no product and then vote against medicare for all lmao. I cant say my heart bleeds for these poor investors. However the people receiving false results is ABSOLUTLEY a crime.
SoulDevoured
SoulDevoured Mês atrás
@D Rodil because that doesn't have the potential to give them a direct 1000% return on investment. If less people suffered from preventable conditions that would benefit them indirectly (better workers, more robust economy) but then they might have to actually work and can't point to a graph to show what a great job they did.
D Rodil
D Rodil 4 meses atrás
This though. I don't understand why there's need to gamble on the promise of a revolutionised blood testing when fixing the system we already have will have a more reliable result
SP Tony
SP Tony 4 meses atrás
That machine was still able to reliably detect herpes, though.
XShrike
XShrike 4 meses atrás
The jury finding it hard to convict her because she was so likable is why I welcome our robot overlords.
John Michels
John Michels 4 meses atrás
Hearing a lawyer derisively exclaim "yada yada" while reciting legalese made my day. That "yada yada" is your bread and butter, bro! Good video nonetheless and as usual. Also, Holmes' voice disturbs me more than anything in modern horror...
Mega Plumber
Mega Plumber 4 meses atrás
That's the problem right there, feeling like they were "looking into the eyes of Steve Jobs" which should have been followed up by "who's idea is she stealing and rebranding as something they came up with?"
Chris Lindner
Chris Lindner 17 dias atrás
I'd love to see a historical breakdown of wire fraud laws. Specifically, tying specific crimes to interstate communication, as opposed to just making it illegal to lie to get money. It seems like a lot of federal cases seem to hinge on "wire fraud" or "tax evasion." Why is it so hard to charge folks with more direct crimes?
Grinnar
Grinnar 4 meses atrás
Always enjoy these breakdowns, so us normal folk can understand.
Grinnar
Grinnar Mês atrás
@SingleHotDad you okay?
floridahacker
floridahacker 3 meses atrás
@tomstonemale that was the joke dude…
William Hicks
William Hicks 3 meses atrás
It may be one of the craziest cases in history but it sure as hell isn't complicated.
Sudhir Panier
Sudhir Panier 4 meses atrás
Devin seems like a pretty normal guy to me, did he do something I missed?
SithLord Billy
SithLord Billy 3 meses atrás
4 out of 11 Charges. One word I have to say: "Injustice! 🙄"
xantares13
xantares13 4 meses atrás
This just shows that Cicero was correct. Appeals to emotion always win over appeals to logic.
random person
random person 4 meses atrás
15:00 no she definitely knew what she was doing. She’s obviously intelligent… no way she thought she was helping anyone
Molly Grace
Molly Grace 3 meses atrás
It’s crazy to me how we’re so much more lenient with white collar crimes, when those are the crimes that hurt people the most.
carlos rivas
carlos rivas Mês atrás
Plus she is a woman and they always get lighter sentences.
bobbyt2012
bobbyt2012 4 meses atrás
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the jury heard that her product was essentially as accurate as a coin flip and yet they still believed she was genuine based on her testimony. That is incredible. Imagine how effective she could have been if she wasn't a fraud.
J.J. Kuchenmeister
J.J. Kuchenmeister 2 meses atrás
@Sean Raines NO ONE, not one single person who has ever lived, is above being scammed. Maybe you wouldn't fall for this scam in particular, or maybe you would, but the fact that you think it is impossible to scam you, makes you a perfect target.
Sean Raines
Sean Raines 2 meses atrás
@J.J. Kuchenmeister I know she wouldn't have gotten me. To this day i still haven't fallen for an actual con. I'm 47. Where's the peer review? (those are half time bollocks anyway) where's the actual Edison blood test and not a traditional blood test? Too good to be true. I have no fear of losing out. Rather I have fear of losing out on my money. I'd have a separate official blood testing company double check her stuff or I wouldn't have any. Or I'd get tested by Theranos but get separate results somewhere near my doctors office before I gave anything. You need to look for evidence first. Now I will say this, for a con she did break new ground and her and the book has taught us what to look out for.
lakshmi r
lakshmi r 3 meses atrás
@Lady Vengeance I'm women and no one believes me even if I'm telling truth
SimonTech  Development & Engineering
As usual, the objectivity in the treatment of cases on the LegalEagle channel, is as always a pleasure to watch. Worth reviewing by any other creator on BRvid, to achieve the same high quality to always have easy watchable content.
Francis Nopantses
Francis Nopantses 3 meses atrás
Thank you for a really informative video that broke down why the case went the way it did and what exactly the fraud was about! The media was so useless, spending lots of time on superficial stuff or Holmes' claims (distractions) in her defense, or engaging in meta commentary as if we were already experts on the details of what her company was up to.
gaddyric
gaddyric 3 meses atrás
I love how, according to what I heard in this video, the prosecutors put way more effort into proving the charges about defrauding the investors instead of the patients. Gee I wonder if it had anything to do with a bunch of very pissed off rich people getting priority over everyone else?
Angel Lynn
Angel Lynn 4 meses atrás
I love this channel- you break it down in a way only a "good" lawyer could. Thank you!
Steve Herman
Steve Herman 4 meses atrás
I was directly affected by Theranos so this is interesting to me. My doctor suggested I use Theranos for a blood test because money was tight and my high deductible insurance meant I had to pay most of my health costs out of pocket. I got the test. It seemed impressive with the phone app they had. I was excited. Except the test was completely wrong and I had made health decisions based on the bogus test I received. I kind of wish I could sue Theranos and I suppose I could have tried, but mostly because I was angry that I was duped. I feel like if you get duped by a store selling you something that doesn't work it's different when you are purchasing something that is part of the public trust like health care.
Jann D
Jann D 3 meses atrás
@Richard Aversa a lot of doctors these days have little understand of how blood tests work. Got that opinion from a health lab technician. She also requests all of her results because she doesn’t trust their ability to even interpret them.
John Smith
John Smith 3 meses atrás
It is hard to say that this private service of hers constitutes "public trust".
Nnamdi Nwoha
Nnamdi Nwoha 3 meses atrás
That's great...
greebleClown
greebleClown 3 meses atrás
@Richard Aversa I only have what I learned until high school and I knew enough to be very skeptical of what she was claiming. Though if my doctor had recommended it I would have also listened as I trust they would have more knowledge than I, so I don’t blame the patients in the slightest. (Rather I would have marveled at how far we’ve advanced since my school days. After I would have demanded a detailed explanation as to how a medical professional could have been duped and decided what to do from there.)
Who Cares
Who Cares 4 meses atrás
After watching this video, I don't know how anyone could come to a conclusion that she wasn't defrauding people from the start, with that very intention She doctored reports that were to be presented to investors, she continually misrepresented the capabilities of her product, and she even went as far as changing her physical appearances
Janne Peltonen
Janne Peltonen 4 meses atrás
1) The length of prison sentences in your country are completely insane. Here in Finland, a 'life' sentence if typically practically 16 years. 2) Therapy+diagnosis? Makes more sense. I'd always associated the name with 'theras' ('monster' in Greek) and 'Thanatos' ([personalized] 'Death' in Greek).
Slice Of Fish
Slice Of Fish 3 meses atrás
Your interpretation is more fitting tbh 😆
Leongon draws stuff
Leongon draws stuff 4 meses atrás
I always loved the before and after of her persona. It would have been nice to show her voice before this scheme, like everyone else reporting on this has.
swistedfilms
swistedfilms 4 meses atrás
The lesson here is defraud the powerless, not those with money and political connections.
Stefan Spohn
Stefan Spohn 3 meses atrás
This case is crazy!!! I feel like she had an amazing idea and took things too far.
Alex W
Alex W 3 meses atrás
I'm an experienced lawyer. I watch lawyers on BRvid. You are, hands down, the best. You do a remarkable job.
Jv woods
Jv woods 4 dias atrás
Just like most things. Your only successful if people like you and your good looking. You can be the best lawyer and know everything there is to know about the law but a good looking young lawyer right out of law school who knows nothing could easily charm the jury and all your knowledge means nothing.
j2simpso
j2simpso 4 meses atrás
Objection: The 4 counts she was charged on can run concurrently meaning four sentences of 20 years each will work out to at most 20 years in prison. Not a bad result, if you ask me!
Ed S
Ed S 4 meses atrás
We know the rest of the story: Holmes: 2 years house arrest Bulwani: 78 years prison - parole eligible after 60 years
Ja Wi
Ja Wi 4 meses atrás
She also defrauded Safeway which were going to install Thernos machines in supermarket pharmacies prior to the Walgreens agreement. She destroyed many careers there. I vote maximum sentence.
Ryan Voll
Ryan Voll 3 meses atrás
I love that the stock videos you use as what it looks like in a courtroom, are always having the actors doing stuff that you’ve done videos on telling us doesn’t actually happen. It’s so funny. LegalEagle: No, this doesn’t happen. Lawyer can’t walk up to jurors. Also LegalEagle: uses stock video of lawyer walking along the jury box to talk to them. Lol 😂
Kori Clay
Kori Clay 4 meses atrás
Yes! When I watched a 2 hours documentary on this, you could see the machines malfunctioning and actually SPILLING AND MIXING the samples due to jerking, machine troubles, etc.
Hyrena J
Hyrena J 3 meses atrás
The fact that Holmes got as far as she did is really an indictment of our healthcare system and the investors' ignorance.
Dylan Janos
Dylan Janos 4 meses atrás
I love how you can get away with crimes if the jury likes you
QCteamkill
QCteamkill 3 meses atrás
@Alison Air if you're innocent. If you've got caught red handed you might want a jury and tell a bold faced lie and big sob story.
Alison Air
Alison Air 3 meses atrás
@A.M. Hofmeister I'd rather have a smart, elite person pass judgement on me than 13x Joe McGlueHuffer Yahoo on the street.
Amélie Carré
Amélie Carré 3 meses atrás
@A.M. Hofmeister No system is absolutely impartial, with or without jury. What you call "elite", in these countries we call trained, experienced and competent. There's no base to suggest there's more corruption. There are mistakes though, even trained experienced people come with their prejudices. Just as much as jurors do, except the jurors mostly don't even want to be there, they just have to. They're told how the law works but is it really enough to bend their minds to leave the "gut feeling and personnal conviction" way of thinking at the door? Not sure.
A.M. Hofmeister
A.M. Hofmeister 3 meses atrás
@Pegoste1993 In other words you have a society which ensures only the elites can pass judgement upon people. The Jury system is established the exact same way, except it uses individuals who are decided to be impartial by a series of eliminative rounds which everyone agrees upon. They are told the way the law works, and each side is allowed to argue on the behalf of the client. A judge only exists to ensure the fairness of the trial and has zero input on the outcome. There is far less capacity for corruption in this system than the one you described. Be condescending all you want, but I like my country's basic philosophy behind the construction of the legal system.
CEO At Crystalsoft
CEO At Crystalsoft 4 meses atrás
I remember being excited for these discussions. Now I'm old enough to understand disappointment 😞
JesusMySavior
JesusMySavior Dia atrás
Absolutely incredible. Normal folk have been charged with way worse for doing way less...but she gets to get away with this. Thankfully, her damaged reputation will probably impede the rest of her career and she will never get to make headway in something she desperately wanted to accomplish. That's some kind of solace for the patients that were spooked by her FALSE tests.
Ethan Boyd
Ethan Boyd 3 meses atrás
"The disease progression process." We got a real pathophysiologist here!
Thomas Becker
Thomas Becker 4 meses atrás
I mean, what can you say about a woman who (apparently) got pregnant in an effort to garner sympathy?
Renée Seance
Renée Seance 4 meses atrás
I wonder if she would have been acquitted on a lot of these charges if she wasn't a pretty, young, white woman. The halo effect is reeeally strong with this one, and a jury is plenty susceptible enough to believe that she "really believed in her dream," and want to believe the best intentions from her as a result.
Joshua A
Joshua A 17 dias atrás
@Leto2ndAtreides Failure is fine. That's not the issue here. The issue is that she lied about her product to the point that machines were actually being used even though they were extremely unreliable. That's not failing with good intentions, that's deception.
Boromir the Blasted
Boromir the Blasted 2 meses atrás
@Larry Lindgren I was being sarcastic.
Larry Lindgren
Larry Lindgren 2 meses atrás
@Boromir the Blasted If you don't think it helped you are kidding yourself. It's been proving from testing people over and over how you look sways people. If she'd and been a 65-year-old man looking old and grumpy she'd have gotten fried on all counts. She is pretty young woman and white as well. All counts for her not against her.
Thomas Degroat
Thomas Degroat Mês atrás
As a biomedical research student, when I first heard about theranos, I thought it was ridiculous. I thought it would be common sense that it would be impossible to do that much with so little blood. Never would've guessed that it would have gone this far.
drzero7
drzero7 3 meses atrás
Thank you for letting me understand my biggest concern about this trial. Why wasn't she convicted of Fraud against Patients? Because IMO she 100% fraud them with inaccurate test results and potentially harm patients with wrong lab work and thus wrong diagnosis, which can lead to serious harm or death to a patient depending on circumstances. Your explanation make sense why she was acquitted on Fraud against Patients.
Vince Calio
Vince Calio 2 meses atrás
If you watch her old interviews, Holmes was all kinds of crazy. It’s hard to believe that anyone could fall for her bogus machines.
Rose Peterson
Rose Peterson 3 meses atrás
If you have time, would you do a video breakdown of the legal situations and laws broken in The Incredibles? I think that would be a lot of fun!
S S
S S 4 meses atrás
Her getting off on defrauding the patients was absolute malarkey. They sold physicians on a product that, even if she genuinely believed would work eventually, she knew it did not work yet. And knew that the end user would be the patients.
Dr Jonesey
Dr Jonesey 3 meses atrás
Big brain laws ideas give small brain results.
Aimeryan
Aimeryan 3 meses atrás
@S S Totally agree, and I think the jury not seeing through her deception (especially given they had alread concluded her credibility was low) is baffling; knowingly selling poor quality health products with devastingly high impact to end users seems difficult to justify how you could *possibly* be genuine in your desire to help those end users. However, once the jury has decided on that point, not having a fallback degree is something that should be remedied in the law - and that is where the negligence staircase is analogous.
S S
S S 3 meses atrás
@Aimeryan I don’t think stairs with no railings is a fair comparison because, even while not being up to code, the users can still see that there is an extra risk there. I would say it’s more akin to a company that designs a stairway that looks beautiful because of its glass tile pavements used in the stairs. The selling point of the stairs is the aesthetic. But there is a fundamental flaw in the designed that makes the stairs hazardous much of the time and leaves users prone to slipping and injuring themselves. The company, including its CEO, knows this, but instead of redesigning the stairs to no longer contain this hazard, opts instead to continue advertising and selling the design to both home owners and building commissioners under the pretenses that the original design functions just like a normal staircase, while retaining the aesthetic.
Aimeryan
Aimeryan 3 meses atrás
@Leto2ndAtreides The issue here seems to be one of degrees and the lack of such being applied. It appears to be (based on the statements the jury themselves have made) that the jury found her to be genuine in her desire to provide for the patients, which alongside the difficulty of providing evidence against this, they found her not to be guilty of the intent to deceive the patients. This to me is analogous of building/commissioning a stairway that is not well made and has no railings; if someone ends up slipping and falling off it there is a legitimate chance the builder/owner did not intend for this to happen. However, this would downgrade the charge to negligence, rather than nothing at all. Similarly, degress of murder being based on what they are found to be guilty of. The common sense missing here is that just because she was not found to be guilty by the jury of intent does not mean she should not carry some weight for what happened to the patients. A lesser degree, perhaps, but still some degree.
N A
N A 3 meses atrás
@S S exactly, no way she would’ve gotten away with it in countries like Germany who actually do care to protect the consumers
Diogo Neves
Diogo Neves 4 meses atrás
I love your videos!! Thanks for putting this up 😃 You mentioned silicon valley went crazy for it but I couldn't stop noticing the investors mentioned are mostly/all outside of silicon valley. Did I miss something?
kn0x
kn0x 2 meses atrás
I actually watched the documentary "The Inventor" about Holmes in my high school film class less than a month ago so this is cool to see!
Renee Boswell
Renee Boswell 4 meses atrás
I can almost understand how someone might fall for this. Certain tests like INRs used to require a full vial of blood but can now be done with a finger prick, and at the nursing home I work at we have a machine where you can run an initial urinalysis instantly with very little pee. But it boggles the mind how someone could believe you could run multiple tests with one poke with high accuracy. Hell, even in the INR example there are times we have to validate the results with a traditional blood draw
Stephen Shuttleworth
Stephen Shuttleworth 3 meses atrás
Thanks for the video. A couple of things you didn't mention: Holmes got rid of the CFO for Theranos, when he started asking the wrong questions; there was no CFO, for years, afterwards; and part of Holmes's schtick was to lower her voice from the natural alto to a more business-like baritone. She and Suze Orman should get together to form a podcast team on BRvid; whomever happens to be in jail, at that time, can join the one on probation. Who wouldn't tune in for their excellent advice?
bouytt guyt
bouytt guyt 3 meses atrás
Ever since I was diagnosed with cancer, I am even more mad at how much money she wasted that could've been put into legitimate medical research and development.
Oyster
Oyster 4 meses atrás
I like these videos, as always. I do find it alarming that, essentially, the bar for being held accountable for defrauding the general public seems to be higher than the bar for defrauding powerful investors. Powerful investors do have more resources with which to do their own research after all.
semja
semja 4 meses atrás
What is crazy is from day 1 I told everyone who mentioned this company to me that the technology was infeasible, and it's great to know I was right all along.
republicofsandals
republicofsandals 3 meses atrás
Thank you for covering this trial. It really matters.
Justin
Justin 4 meses atrás
Ever since I was diagnosed with cancer, I am even more mad at how much money she wasted that could've been put into legitimate medical research and development.
Leto2ndAtreides
Leto2ndAtreides 3 meses atrás
The company was doing real research. They just hadn't succeeded (perhaps because it was impossible, perhaps because they needed more time and money) A billion dollars is a really small amount of money when you're talking about trying to change the game in medicine. Even small progress in medicine usually comes with a higher price tag than that.
anky
anky 4 meses atrás
This is one point I don’t agree with you. The idea was great. Even tho her lack of medical training probably clouded her judgment as of what was possible or not, she had a whole team of people who knew what they were doing, and they were developing a new way of blood testing. Sure, nothing came of it - that’s a failed experiment. But something could’ve been developed, and then all this money would have been spent well. The marketing and wire transfer fraud and misleading investors were an issue, yes. But spending that money on trying to develop something - no. That was money well spent
Justin
Justin 4 meses atrás
@yearswriter Thanks. Thankfully it was operable and my scans show no disease as of December.
Justin
Justin 4 meses atrás
@Ade Blood testing research is what I would have liked it to be put into.
Nancy Duermeier
Nancy Duermeier 3 meses atrás
Thank you for the facts. It's been a while ago but we need to be reminded of how easy it is to get tangled in investment schemes. Ans you put in all the facts. Thank you....all it takes is a little investigation !!!
Kim Robinson
Kim Robinson 3 meses atrás
As a clinical laboratory scientist, I encountered her fraud in a high level project early in her career. When I exposed it, I was silenced. I elevated my narrative. Later, I worked for a laboratory company where her staff fled to escape her secrecy requirements. Justice is finally served!!!! Unfortunately, she got away with fraud to patients. Shameful!
James Crawford
James Crawford 3 meses atrás
So frustrating that she gets to pull the whole abusive boyfriend card and get away with it. Also, never underestimate the horniness of old men. She’s not even remotely attractive either…
Emre Bogazliyanlioglu
Emre Bogazliyanlioglu 3 meses atrás
And the fact that it wasn't her real voice throughtout all these things, amazing!
WhaleManMan
WhaleManMan 4 meses atrás
Fun Fact: Holmes's father was one of the top executives at Enron. Yes really.
Dana Tisdale
Dana Tisdale 8 dias atrás
He was A Vice President and over environmental projects. Not saying he wasn’t shady, but he was not included in the sector that brought Enron down, energy trading and wasn’t in the room where it happened.
asfrmaster2011
asfrmaster2011 Mês atrás
Yes and lost everything
sea breeze
sea breeze Mês atrás
@oldschoolman 144 her stares more creepy 😳
Golf& Fish
Golf& Fish Mês atrás
@John Smith 🤔??
Arturo Aguilar
Arturo Aguilar 3 meses atrás
So, can the patients file a class-action lawsuit? Or do the acquittals in the Criminal Court protect her from civil lawsuit?
RoboSparkle
RoboSparkle Mês atrás
Jurors: The defendant definitely conned those investors, and lied to them continuously. Also Jurors: The defendant seems so likable and genuine, I believe the things this known liar is saying to us. Definitely didn't defraud consumers because she said she thought she was helping them.
Johnny Giddings
Johnny Giddings 4 meses atrás
Seems like a pretty clear case to me. A narcissist with a charming personality and pretty face defrauds investors by promising results that are physically impossible. A classic
Jinxed
Jinxed 4 meses atrás
Fun fact: The Onion has an Onion Talk video (a parody of TEDTalks, in case you couldn't figure it out) where the speaker's whole pitch is that step 1: he'll create the idea, and step 2: He'll have someone else make it actually happen. Kinda sounds like that was basically Holmes' pitch... And the comparing of Elizabeth Holmes to Steve Jobs is hilarious and apt, given that Jobs didn't actually invent anything, but merely provided *v i s i o n~* and had other people do the actual work. Of course, Apple did actually release products, so there's something they have over Theranos
Iskold
Iskold 4 meses atrás
The saddest thing about this is that if Holmes had defrauded consumers and not investors, very little would have been done to her. The only reason she will see the bars of a prison cell is because the rich lost money.
Jennifer moriarty
Jennifer moriarty 3 meses atrás
@PCDelorian Technically with homeopathy..when fda was founded they write it in a way that homeopathic stuff didn't have to be submitted...the founding people were huge in it
Dr Jonesey
Dr Jonesey 3 meses atrás
This is an assumption but I can see there may be some truth to that.
Albtraum
Albtraum 3 meses atrás
@Iskold I'm not even surprised about how many people believe other people's lies :P
Iskold
Iskold 3 meses atrás
@Albtraum you'd be surprised how many people believe their own lies.
Albtraum
Albtraum 3 meses atrás
This is BS, she obviously knew it was fake and intended to defraud patients too. But America seems to care more about investors and share holders ...
TheRisky88
TheRisky88 3 meses atrás
I would love to see a breakdown on the current case between Theda v Ascension healthcare in Wisconsin. I think there's a lot of juice there with at-will employment, recruiting, "poaching" and injunctions!
Brett W
Brett W 4 meses atrás
I’m wondering if there are pending charges for knowingly providing inaccurate results to patients from the aspect of medical malpractice. If these tests provably caused, or likely caused patient harm then isn’t that prosecutable under other statutes?
jayspeidell
jayspeidell 4 meses atrás
I had no idea how cynical and absurd this fraud was. Wow.
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