The reality of living with an EV that nobody talks about !! 

3.5kW is still enough to replace your daily drive..

@k bundies Depends on how much you drive in a day.

@Neil Kurzman with a 3.5kW charging possibility you can charge 35kWh in 10 hours. This will allow you to drive 100 miles per day - without visiting public chargers. That’s a pretty decent amount for a daily commuter. If you have longer distances, you might have to pop into a public DC charger for 10 or 15 minutes - and you should be fine, too.

My brother has an EV and had a home charger properly installed in his garage (all done officially). It caught fire. Thankfully he was home and put it out but it had melted a load of wires throughout the house. Big expensive job to fix it.

@Jon B If there are melted wires in the electric box, and then it wasn’t installed properly. The wire wasn’t the proper gauge for the circuit breaker. Or the circuit breaker was defective.

MixinRaver welcome to the modern economy

With an ICE car you would fill up three times every two weeks, on the way home, it would take ten minutes per fill and you would avoid the lunchtime stress and could eat when and where you chose to, not where circumstance dictated, being forced to adopt a lifestyle to accommodate my car would be a hard circle to square.

If you went to lunch at 10 AM, it doesn’t sound like you returned to work at 11 AM, so did you have a 2 hour lunch? In any office where I worked, I would not be permitted a 2 hour lunch!! Also on the days that I was on the road conducting business, the noon time charge up would be impossible. In my life’s work, a 2 hour lunch would get you fired after your first 2 hour lunch!!

@byoh100 My schedule is extremely flexible but generally, I'll be out no more than an hour between travel charging and eating. As I mention it not ideal for most people which is why I'm against these mandates trying to force everyone to EV when it not a car that is ideal for all scenarios.

@NihilistSolitude not finding fault, I understood your statement, just wondering what kind of a lunch/work schedule you work as I know work requirements are almost as varied as the number of working people in the US. Have a good one.

I'm in Barcelona and I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 3 years now. My parking is in a different building than my flat. The biggest challenge that I had was getting charging in my parking spot. I had to petition the building owners to allow me to have a new electric meter added and I was lucky that they had space for 3 more. Then I hired a professional installer and they were able to get everything done for just €2,000 and 500€ was the charger box. As I always charge at night when it's cheaper I don't think it will be an issue when other people transition to electric cars.

@Glenn Shoemake charging one, two or few cars is not a problem. The problem will arise, when there are more people, who have EVs and want to charge them simultaneously (at night or whatever). The existing electrical infrastructure will need to be rebuild completely, in order to handle this extreme loads. Also, when you say "just" 2000 + 500 EUR, do you understand, that this is about 1 month salary for most people in Europe? This is not cheap, it's an additional expense. In my opinion, without huge support from the EU - the transition to EV will be very hard for many people. Also, Tesla ain't exactly cheap and affordable for a lot of people. It is not a problem for one person with good income to get EV today. What is hard is to make this transition for everyone (or almost everyone). I think you underestimate the challenge.

@Ilia Yes Tesla is not cheap, but people here spend as much on a petrol only car such as Mercedes, Audi or BMW. I drove a Ford Focus for 10 years to save money for the Tesla. I'm glad I made the switch to Electric. My car uses 3kw an hour which is not a lot. I could pay extra for more KW pipe but as my car sits in the garage it's really not necessary. €2000 was total install, 1500€ was labor and other materials and €500 was the electric box with its own Menekes plug and key to lock it when not in use. Finance rates were cheap in 2019, but not so much now. Still it's the best car that I've ever owned and still puts a smile on my face when I drive it and when it's cleaned.

@Glenn Shoemake I'm sure it's a great car and you have joy with it. And that's very nice! I am not anti-EV in any way. I was simply pointing out, that the transition to EV for the majority of people (and thus for the governments) will be a challenge and will probably take more time, than anticipated.

@Ilia That's true and in November 2019, there were a lot fewer options in buying a EV. My biggest criteria was the ability to drive 90 minutes away to Costa Brava Beach and to enjoy the day out and to be able to drive home without having the need to charge anywhere. The Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe are both not capable of this and as I knew that I would keep the car I went ahead and bought the Long Range Tesla Model 3. My wife was initially against the purchase because of the high price, but now she loves it and always wants to go out for a ride. There is a good chance Tesla will build a cheaper hatchback which would be great for the European market if they can get the price at €25,000.

Maybe.... but battery technology is continually evolving... "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" ... From what I've seen, I am confident workable solutions are being found.

@Pumps we know all the elements of the periodic table and we know their electrical properties. There is no magical new element that could be discovered. Once you know the mathematical equation you can quite easily calculate every possible combination of elements to determine their performance as a battery. The evolution of batteries is just tinkering around with the engineering of the boxes.

@Pumps Spot on, matey!

@Pumps This kind of logic confounds me! In what way is it evolving? We've had Duracell AA's for decades...no one has improved on that. Same for 12v car batteries. There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence. And by the way, if one were to be invented, existing EVs would become worthless overnight! If we follow your logic we might as well plan to dismantle the NHS on the grounds that in the future we'll have devices likes Dr McCoy had on Star Trek!

@Ten True Summers It's this kind of "logic" that just makes me facepalm. Clearly you've not bothered to go look at what's going on in the world of battery tech, but you're basically writing off the work of thousands of scientists and industrialists based on..... the existence of a Duracell AA battery? Good grief. "There's absolutely no reason to state that some new kind of battery will be invented unless you have evidence." - Just google "new battery technologies", there's enough links there - to reputable sources, I might add, not just puff pieces and other crankery - to keep you busy for several hours.

The best measure is If a single supply can't deliver the capacity of 7kw X 1hr of charge "per car" on demand The logical implication is deliver 7kw X Nhrs THEN deliver 7kw X 1hr to each car. In other words National energy suppliers provide low charge to an on site battery, the battery by design can then deliver high charge rates ( the 7kw Hr ) to each car on site needs. That's the practical work around to the network not able to scale it's deliver with demand...introduce a buffer step. Network > one charge point > one car Or Network > one battery on site > N charge points > N cars In my example one battery could be N batteries so.its scalable 1 battery supports say 4 cars in parallel

"Like you we are lucky enough to have a 7kW wall box." It wasn't luck it was pre-planning.

@C Nault And I wonder how much that 7 kw wall box cost to purchase and install. Also, what if you have to park outside and somebody steals your charging cable?

@rick raber What if you have to park your gasoline car outside and someone steals your catalytic converter. Or your car. What if what if what if

Givernment doesn't need to be governing pushing EV cars. The market need to govern it.

Who are they then?

Thanks 👍

Glad it was helpful!

Hello John. Like you, I live in Canada, and I too live in a high rise building, although mine is a 56 Unit condo, in which I own my own two parking spots. I drive a 2022 Volvo C40, fully electric car, and have never had an issue with charging my vehicle, as I have my own charger installed at my parking space. I charge my vehicle at night, when the fees for electricity are reduced and on longer road trips in which the distance travelled exceeds the range of my vehicle, I simply charge the vehicle at one of the fast chargers located along my route. My vehicle alerts me to where these chargers are located. Admittedly, driving an EV does not fit everyone's lifestyle yet, it does fit mine perfectly. Typically I spend about $30 per month charging my vehicle whereas I used to spend about $200 a month driving my Internal Combustion Engine car. And I like to think that I am doing my part to help this planet survive. So I appreciate that an EV might not work for you, there are thousands of people who drive them and are getting along just fine. And there will be more in the future. Thanks for your "two cents" and thanks for reading my "nickel".

You have a lot more space in Canada, and a UK flat/apartment here is usually tiny with no dedicated parking, often street parking at best

Isn’t it also tougher on the batteries (like drain) living in normally colder environments?

@Frunkenstein you seemed to have missed the point that I was making. As I said, he was discouraging people from purchasing electric cars because he knows there isn't enough electricity on the power grid to charge everyone's cars and power everyone's homes.

No charging stations in NYC that I know of.

He stated he is in the UK. Also, look at where the steering wheel is located. Steering wheels in US driven vehicles are on the left side, not the right. Charging stations in Europe are significantly more prevalent than the US.

@Vicki Meyers he was discussing a conversation he was having with another person, so his comments were valid. A problem with many EV owners and proponents of them is outlined in the video, and many people don't look further than today, as was said what happens after the honeymoon period?, the debate needs to happen now or we lose mass personal transport.

I live in NYC and have never seen an EV charger. Everyone I know who has an EV lives in the suburbs and own at least two cars. The 2nd car is always a gas car and is usually a Range Rover or other huge SUV.

nowhere to charge in apts. might be one or two outlets for one or two cars. otherwise would have to run wires from inside apt. out the door and / or window to the car. no way, forget that. and if there were a bunch of EVs charging in an apt., it would overload the system, trip the breakers, n power would go out.

I can't imagine purchasing a used EV where batter life and range has been significantly reduced.

P

Yep. It's like my HP Laserjet printer. It gives you a number for how many pages more you can print with the present cartridge. It's based on what you having been printing, and extrapolates it. You may actually get significantly more or less.

Short answer - Driving history predicts range using past performance, instead of best case scenario.

Thanks Tracey. Kind of you to say 🙏🏻

Thanks 👍

It's a gimmick, and they're probably getting a kickback from the manufacturers who are in turn being forced into it all.

Yet not a dinosaur.

@simon H wilki moreover I can't believe the new licencing system where road tax is calculated on the value new, whether it be under £40k or not. Then subsequent owners pay a percentage (or something like that). Consequently my daughter's mate has a 5 litre Mustang and it attracts quite a low amount considering..... madness!

I agree 👍

Thanks 🙏🏻

The attitude is, "Take your sick child to the hospital in the bus, or call a cab!" LMAO.

Totally agree with you mr Freeky . What they should be doing is giving an incentive to people who own 2 cars to Change 1 of them for electric so you have a choice of transport , short journeys to work , d.i.y. store , shopping , school run etc , use the EV then on those occasions when a long run is needed use petrol car without the worry of charging on route .

I live in southern Ontario and the 400 series highways can be like parking lots even without an accident and being stranded. And as you say even worse if it's in very cold winter temps.

And if per say everyone on your block ended up getting one. Are the main transformers going to be strong enough to supply them all, if not no doubt there will be a huge increase in your monthly electric bill. Even if you don't have an EV vehicle.

Unfortunately most people have not really bothered to examine whether a "solution" is necessary. Beware of politicians calling for "solutions!"

I agree. Back to small local communities and only short journeys travelled. I think we are soon to go back to living as it was 200 years ago.

This is exactly is the plan. Deter common man from able to buy the car.

Nonsense! Computers slow down because people add more software. Cars are more like hard drives. They just keep chugging along until they break.

You do not own an electric vehicle.

This appears to be a very common problem politicians have conveniently ignored. They'll claim their own EV on their expenses paid by taxpayers. while these same expense paying taxpayers mostly can't afford a new EV. This in turn can't be charged in many areas without sufficient power generation & transport or charging point infrastructure.

I'm retired and like to travel the US. On any given day, 300 miles would run out fast. How long does it take to charge an EV vehicle? When I drive on the interstate, there are often 20-30 people gasing up. How will 30 people charge at one time? I think EV's are nice on paper, but reality is a totally different thing.

In some cases, traveling through the Canadian Rockies, there are many signs warning you of the last gas station and then yer own yer own. And they ain't kidding (I'm Canadian BTW). It's a no brainer to have a few litres of gas in your vehicle on these road trips. This isn't going off the map. This is trying to go from point A to point B through the Rockies. It's massive. I would be very nervous with an EV in bad weather trying to attempt that. Not against EVs at all. But it's a solution that will, IMO, not fit all countries 100%.

I was wondering if you will test the actual mileage you get on a known trip versus the amount of estimate which is consumed on that trip to see how accurate it is, before & after reset. I have been hearing the mileage estimates are very inflated & rarely do you get the range which is estimated. I believe that leads to the range anxiety with current owners because they cannot trust the estimates.

Apparently there is quite a lot of Lithium in Devon or Cornwall. The rare earth magnets (neodymium)will certainly present a problem.

@erin s. in addition to the lithium, cobalt etc the bulk of these batteries is the graphite anode. Much of the best "anode grade" graphite comes from oil residue. As with the other ingredients, there just isn't enough graphite - less so if it's burned first!

@valley of iron How common an element doesn't say anything about how easy it is to utilise. There has to be an energy profit to recovering the lithium because energy is the name of the game. Take the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen. It is devilishly hard to utilise as a fuel and a net energy negative. At best it is a battery of energy. You can easily harvest H from natural gas or other fossil fuel but if the object is to cut fossil fuel use then that is awkward. Distilling water is the other way of sourcing H but a horrific energy hog. That is the most abundant element in the universe but that doesn't describe its utility, or lack of.

@Bob Bailey since EVs are supposed to be so easy in the environment, check into how a lithium mine pollutes the environment.

@valley of iron Is that where in Africa little children are used to dig for lithium?

Seven years of using the Tesla charging network with 100% success.

I do think you need some common sense to run an EV. The "the dash says" crowd and the "it's a 50kwh charger and I'm only getting 40kwh" should just stick to the self charging hybrids.

This is why people buy Tesla's - the ownership experience is completely different in this respect. It is depressing that the user experience for non-Tesla EVs is still so poor. You get 40kW from the 50kW charger cos they are nominally spec'd at 400V and 125A (sometimes 100 or 120A even). But when you plug in to charge, your battery is probably at 360-380V, and the current maximum is fixed. And there are some transmission/conversion losses too, Obviously you shouldn't need to know this, and when it says 50kW you should reasonably expect to get 50kW....

What on earth decided you to buy a Mac-E without any apparent thought or planning Gary? It seems a bit unrealistic if you don’t mind me saying. (Are you prone to making these types of spur of the moment whims?) Why no home box?

@Phil Tucker Exactly. As I said above, I made sure that there are sufficient on street charging points in my local area before pushing the button on buying. Plus, I've done trips to the south of France in my i3 and spent no more time at services charging than I normally would stop for, on such a trip, to stop for a meal break, pee, or just a leg stretch, except I didn't need to queue to use a pump and then queue to pay (if pay at pump is not available, which it often isn't at motorway services).

Glad it was helpful!

A true story : A disabled person recently leased an electric car through Motability and then posts of a disability Facebook group that he doesn’t have off-road parking and asking where near his south-coast home can he charge it. I was aghast. Surely if you’re going to lease an EV that’s the first consideration?

Wow 🤷‍♂️😮

@Andrew Little it says a lot about the integrity of the dealer.

@David I totally agree. Indeed I would go furthest and say that Motability have a moral responsibility to their disabled customers who perhaps don’t have the technical ability to understand EVs to ensure they have access to a nearby charging facility. On a personal level I had the opposite experience recently when my local Peugeot Motability Dealer tried to sell me a home charger costing £700 when I enquired about leasing a 308 PHEV, despite me making it very clear that I have a 13 amp socket on my garage that suits my needs quite adequately. He tried to claim that the wall box “would charge the car better’. Fortunately I’m not that naive.

@Andrew Little 🤣 typical dealer, full of BS hoping you are gullible enough to believe what they say. Never ask a deal for their recommendation, never believe a word they tell you, that's the best mantra Buyer beware...do your own research.

The "not-so-wealthy" people are typically not buying new cars, they go for used. And guess where they get their used cars from? Plus, the subsidy on a 70K pounds car will more than pay for itself just from VAT alone. So if you look at it from this perspective, the whole subsidy story starts making a lot of sense. You kickstart the new technology, offsetting some of its costs. The wealthy people help driving it, offsetting the other part of the costs. Investors see that the government is serious about it, so new markets are opening - and thus they invest, to get their chance. To summarize: the subsidy doesn't cost the government a lot, if anything at all. It sends proper signals to investors and researchers, and as a byproduct it will provide the second hand market with cheap used EVs. I believe that's actually exactly how it has to be done...

@pqvid: Except that's not how pricing works. If the target market for Product X will pay price P, then the a subsidy (S) does NOT yield P - S for consumers, but P + S for sellers. THAT is how subsidies work, with some slight marginal adjustments to compensate for the marginal costs to buyers and sellers to obtain the subsidy.

Oh so true

There is also the problem with public charge point and all the different apps you need to use them. I don't need ESSO money to use an ESSO petrol station, I don't need special BP money to use a BP station. There was on guy in the states who has 46 different apps on his phone so he can travel for his work. Idiotic situation.

It will inevitably end up like solar . Get in 1st or miss out

And those underground parking facilities are extremely expensive. Far beyond the means of most people.

👍

It is like the Childs fairy tale about the kings clothes . Everybody is told he looks wonderful and believes it . Then the child who has not been brainwashed says , he has got nothing on .

Hi John this is very well explained the comment is 💯 percent thanks from Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 enjoy your diesel car and your retirement

Most of the lithium will come from Australia, buy Pilbara shares. In NZ I charge my Leaf from solar, not fast but very cheap.

Hi John, I’m sorry that you find yourself in a lonely situation but I also hope you have achieved all those things you set out to do fifty years ago, and that you have achieved satisfaction. Peace and love bro. 🙏

@Howard Simpson sounds good but in the U.K. we only get about 4 months of useful sunlight per year so we are developing more nuclear energy which has a 100% clean output.

This topic gets discussed every so often in Washington and Oregon in US. This applies to high mileage vehicles too. Tax revenues have decreased. So far the political will is not ready to slow the growth of the move to EV.

Yep lol

I have had 2 EVs and am currently driving a Kona EV. Please understand that the range showing is calculated based on recent driving conditions - up hills, speed, temp, heavy foot etc. When you reset the trip history, then it assumes the best an most recent history - i.e. just a few seconds. That will change as you drive along. My Kona has averaged 4.8 miles/kw since since day one. My driving home today up lots of hills say 2.8 miles/kw. The driving uphill kills it. At freeway speeds, I average about 4.3 mi/kw. So 4.3 time 64 kwh in the battery gives me a range of 275 miles. At best, the range reading is simply saying that at the current conditions you can go about so many miles. I hope this helps.

Nope. They are not ‘about to die’. EV batteries will last longer than a petrol engine and, even then, are only down to about 80% capacity. You really do sound like someone who has done a lot of thinking, but not much research.

@Michael Miller There is far more to concern yourself with than that mate.

Glad it was helpful!

Yep, I'll be long dead before this battery revolution takes place.

Try to pull that trailer into a charging station

Thanks for your autobiography. 90% irrelevant information

Good point about the batteries. The things are huge - and expensive. Improving the technology of the internal combustion engine is the better way to go.

And if the power grid is shut down, people with gas engines will be carting people around…

The Australian Govt has already discussed making EV owners pay extra to make up for the tax revenue they lose from petrol sales. It's all a massive con! People are told yet another 'fairy story' about how great EVs are, but reality gives a different result. Imagine the cost to run an EV when power prices go up another 56% (they have ALREADY increased!) + those Govt EV taxes.

@Nola Jacob I pay registration costs plus the 46 cents fuel tax, on top of which there is GST to provide the roads that EVs run on. EVs for the equivalent ICE are also much heavier contributing more wear on the road system. Let EVs pay their share and if electricity prices go up that only puts them on par with ICEs.

Classic bait-and-switch.

You could use the battery in your EV as a way to store the extra charge of the solar panels during the day.

👍

Good point 👍

"Assuming they're paying just $0.13 (it could be lower since they get commercial electricity, not retail electricity) they're making a profit margin of 207%." I don't know about the US, but in the UK, commercial operations pay far more per kWh than domestic users. That might be a difference in governments - the UK government caps the price per unit for domestic use, but doesn't for commercial. My boss would *love* to pay $0.40 per kWh to keep the office running.

👍

Oh no our utilitie company raised our rates up again for the 100th time this year

Exactly Christian. I am in WA too and we have a long way to go yet.

Agree, here in the USA it isn't an unheard thing to drive 300 miles/483 km. We take about 1300 miles / 2000+ km trip to visit family every year. Our Ford Maverick XLT Hybrid pickup gives us about 450 miles per tank fill, a two day trip. No way can we do this trip in 2 days on an EV these days.

I also live in Australia (but am from the UK originally), firstly I was surprised by the number and variety of EVs and the plethora of public charging options when I visited the UK last July, they're now 20% of new car registrations. I was also surprised that my relatives and a friend all have solar panels and batteries in the UK, like the sun ever shines? What I'd say is that most people in Australia live in cities and most journeys are not very long, I can see EVs being perfect for "most" usage. I've a friend with a Tesla Model 3, he gave me a ride to lunch a few weeks back and I challenged him "what if we wanted to drive to Sydney from Melbourne now?" His car was on 55% charge (I think), he plugged it into the SatNav and it suggested a drive to Euroa, a 20 min stop (let's face it, a coffee and a bathroom visit) and it would be at 85% charge, a lunch stop by the big sheep and you'd arrive in Sydney on 19% charge. In truth it's a 1000km / 600 mile / 9hour journey, like you wouldn't stop for a coffee, lunch and a bathroom visit (sensibly every 2 hours)? So, I was convinced...... Obviously, crossing the Nullarbor is a different kettle of fish, but that's a boundary-case, most people in Australia don't do this ever, let alone on a daily basis. Add to that - almost zero scheduled maintenance compared to an internal combustion engined car (many fewer moving parts), instant torque (addictive acceleration) and I can see the attraction. But, there is taxation..... Victoria (Australia) has introduced a rego surcharge for EVs and many criticise it, however.... EV's cause as much "wear" to the public infrastructure as ICE vehicles and the tax on petrol/diesel (although it's not hypothecated) goes a long way to funding those costs. Also, taxing fuel is arguably the only "fair" tax on vehicles as it is proportional to usage - people who drive a lot pay more. There are technological solutions for "pay as you go" of course, most people are used-to (and accept) toll roads, there are likely some privacy concerns against true road-pricing but a simple "report the distance driven" approach might suffice? As it is, people without cars, cyclists and pedestrians contribute towards the costs of the roads infrastructure in both the UK and Australia (where taxes aren't hypothecated). Having EVs creating additional wear & tear but not pay doesn't seem overly sensible long-term.

@John NH yes, for "most" people, "most' of the time, an EV might be great. The trouble is, you're paying a premium price for a car that won't do the job ALL of the time. Maybe "irresponsible" but we don't stop every two hours. If I'm feeling good, I often go 8 or so. If I'm feeling tired we'll stop and swap drivers.

@alan mac I'd counter the "won't do the job ALL the time" by highlighting that many people have two cars in their garage and that Utes/large-4x4s are often liabilities in city use so (arguably) similar to your objection to EVs (reversed). The future is likely EVs, like the steam engine before it, the internal combustion engine will eventually become obsolete. And again, whilst you may need to do your style of long journeys, plenty of others in Australia don't - ever. The average annual mileage for a car in Australia is now just 13,300km - actually comparable with the UK's 12,700km. There is a cultural perception in Australia that everyone does big mileages and regularly crosses the Nullarbor in their ute, it simply isn't supported by the statistics.

@John NH the point is, many people have a large expensive car/SUV for the long trips/holidays and school duties, plus a smaller more economical city car. But the EVs that are mostly available are basically very expensive city cars. And in one of the most urbanised populations on earth that certainly might suit some people. Not me. BTW my wife and I just did a 650 km drive today with just one quick pee stop, on just over 1/2 tank of fuel. Took 8 hours. Got us here in time for hospital visiting hours. Is there an EV under $40k that could have done that? And yes, it's probably going to be the future, but not like ICE's replacing steam/horses because they were simply better/more fit for purpose. It's going to be the future because it's going to be forced on us, whether we like it or not and whether they are fit for purpose or not.

Sadly, it’s not balanced at all. He even admitted in the first few minutes that he doesn’t understand how the predicted range on his car is calculated.

seems no one wants to talk about,what happens when batteries die,are they recycled,not here in NZ,politicians stear away from subject

@pinkybar7 They will be recycled or reused, plenty of info out there if you want it, not really been an issue so far as so few have actually needed recycling. An EV battery that is finished in a car is still fine for something like a batery farm (balancing load from renewables etc)