The Inhumanity of Celebrity 

Jackie is always ready to put an immediate stop to Preston's compliments. "So anyway..."😂

Jackie’s honesty is insanely refreshing. 😌

I'm the same as Jackie, very introverted. I dont like small talk at all but I am intrigued by meaningful, deep conversations. I can come off as standoffish and its hard because thats who I am. But I relate to people differently. I enjoy deep connections, not frivolous conversations that mean nothing, so its hard for me to relate to most people.

Really loved this episode!! That contrast between Nebuchadnezzar & John the Baptist's approach to fame and who they chose to glorify 💯 "Celebrity" tends to place people on pedestals. Sometimes it even closely resembles worship. There's only one person who could ever truly handle worship, and it's not us...

I love the way he finds himself loving her, was like a suprising moment, like loving her for the first time. That was so pure, only God can teach us how to love someone again everyday. God bless them.

The strangest thing about celebrity culture is how it bleeds into everything else. People have been given such a closeup of certain aspects of celebrities lives that they now feel entitled to all aspects of their lives. I will go even further to say that this entitlement has spilled over into regular everday life. Since many feel entitled to know the ins-and-outs of celebrities lives; they also feel entitled to know the ins-and-outs of the lives of neighbors, coworkers, parishoners etc. Its highly disturbing when you think about it. #NoBoundaries

Jackie is sharing a feeling that many experience… It is interesting how we feel the need to perform in front of people who fell in love with the true us that wasn’t performing.. she isn’t overly sweet or smiling or anything in the podcast unless there’s a joke so I wouldn’t expect anything different in person.. she is matter-of-factly. I appreciate Jackie’s transparency and to get anything else in person would be weird. Those who expect you to be diff than you are, were never fans to begin..

I can’t even express how relatable Jackie is to me…. She puts words to a lot of my feelings and thoughts so well.

Being an introvert in public spaces for extended periods of time is draining. That's what I hear Jackie saying.

I really appreciate Jackie’s transparency here. As an introvert I can completely get what she’s saying. I don’t know if she would consider herself an introvert or not…either way I definitely understand the feeling of being drained after a lot of social interaction. Great episode!

This is good Aaron Carter has been heavy on my heart. I saw a interview where he was in so much pain and he was saying how being a celebrity was not a choice for him. So sad how we dehumanize people and how much suffering we can cause on another person.

I don’t know what it is but this video got me super emotional. I have never had a “fan girl” mentality but always desired to know a few people I have been invested in by people online. Thank you for this content!!!! I hope to one day come support you in person and just give you a genuine hug and thank you for your obedience. ❤

I love how you are so patient with each other and let the other finish their thought

“Fame is rooted in favouritism” so good 👏🏿

I love the way Preston always guards her emotions. Covers her with love. ❤

It resonated with me when Jackie explained how she felt performative in public spaces so others can be ok with her and not misinterpret her actions. I used to do it at work and was so exhausted. Then I finally realized that all I really owed people was respect and professionalism. That’s all!

OMGoodness, thank you so much for this episode!!! There are too many points made that affirmed how I feel to comment on them all. I just love you kids, your openness and honesty is so refreshing. Sorry for the "kids" you're both my children's age. 🥰 The Lord bless you both and your children. ❤️‍🔥🙏❤️‍🔥

I’m not at the same level of notoriety as y’all but I relate to this so much. I’m naturally an over sharer but I’ve realized that I can’t do that on social media. I just can’t. I sacrifice too much privacy, vulnerability, and space for authenticity. And it’s made me realize that I was actually looking for close community and was unhealthily fulfilling that through my online presence. I’ve come to my conclusion, through prayer, that the content I post will be specific to my niche on the internet; and unless there’s a personal life update that affects that, I only want to share my life with those close to me in real life. That’s not to say that your community can’t be online; it totally can - but only certain people can be awarded that intimacy in my opinion. I gave it up so freely and it set unhealthy boundaries between myself and my audience. I imagine the line y’all walk is so much thinner because your content is very intimate, personal, and transformative. I’m not sure what the solution is, but I’m sure the Lord will lead y’all in it. Thanks for the great podcasts 🙏🏿

I took a break from serving in my local church’s music ministry and it’s been the main way I’ve served for the last 15 years. I definitely struggled with not losing my identity as a Christian during this break, so this conversation was super relevant for me.

I once read an anecdote in a book about a younger pastor who was leading a growing church speaking to a more seasoned minister. The younger pastor attempted to explain why he could not stop his church from growing and the more seasoned pastor said simply, “stop adding chairs.” I think there is a principle there for Christian “celebrities.” They could ponder why and how and where a and in which ways they are put on pedestals or they they could just “stop adding chairs.” I could give a thousand examples of how they could do that in this current age, but I don’t want to make this post too long.

My Lord, when Jackie mentioned that she’s drained from “performing”, I can completely relate. When I’m myself, I’m asked, what’s wrong, why the mean face, or why were my words so sharp. I like being in a room and not having to fill the silence w words. I want to wave, smile and keep it moving.

This is so spot on. I needed to hear this. I sometimes get nervous around more high-profile people, and I keep trying to tell myself, “We are both children of God!” 😂Everything you said helped so much, thank you.

I just love how you both are soooooo honest!!! And you express your feelings so well. GOALS!!!😊

Suprisingly, on a small level I can relate. Just being a Christian puts you in a place of having to feel like you have to perform. Being the daughter of a man who is influential in his circle does that too. For myself, all of y'all I watch I thank God for...however, y'all strangers. I feel no type of comfort coming up to a stranger for a convo or picture. I'll say hi with bright eyes and a great big wave...but that's it.

I was so honored to take a pic with you at Glory Vegas, but I had asked first. You looked goodt btw, 4 kids where? Knowing that you're an introvert, I respect your boundaries. Also, I dont want ppl to just like me for my gifts either. Glory Atl you were pregnant you had your family there, so I didnt want to ask to take a pic. I dont just like you cuz you can preach real good. I like that you and your husband are real, your funny personalities, your family,your testimonies, which I can relate with. Jackie youre a black woman with locs, thats a whole testimony in itself. Didnt see that as much growing up. All in all, yea I be feeling like yall my cousins in my head🤣 ,but also respect yall and especially yall children.

I'm Jamaican and growing up culturally the reaction to " celebrity" is different. We don't like the feeling on a whole like ppl act like they are or feel like they are better than you. We look down on it. However I have noticed young ppl because of the influence of social media and US culture tend to idolise ppl who are well known. But celebrity homage in excess is idol worship.

I feel you Jackie! People expect you to be an extrovert with a ton of high energy all of the time. That’s just not reasonable, or even attainable in certain situations. The irony is that they want or need to extract that high-strung energy from you to make themselves feel better. It can be exhausting trying to appease people. Naturally, as humans we will always want more, so to what extent does it end? 🤷🏾‍♀️ I feel you girl. #triggered😂

It is so hard to be somebody else. You both are so reflective of who God says we should be. Honest, open, and Authentic. Pray the Holy Spirit continue to use you both for His glory. I appreciate you both, blessings.

I've met celebrities and acknowledged them, if they were people I liked or followed, but I never go out of my way to take pictures or make them feel like they HAVE to do anything but exist in their space. I'm an introvert and I don't like people in my space, so I don't do it to others. I barely even take photos of myself, let alone a stranger, no matter how famous they are. They are people who need to feel comfortable. I treat people how I want to be treated and I wouldn't like that so I don't do it to them. It's creepy and dehumanizing and we would feel attacked if people did that to us.

GREAT podcast. The narcissism segment was especially interesting! thank you both!

Attaching value to your outcome vs Who you were made by was so good. I struggle with that as a professional. This episode is such a blessing.

This episode is a whole 5 sermons. I need to pause and digest!! I’m so glad there are couples and individuals like you in the kingdom. I honestly don’t know where else I would come across rich information like this.

Such a good conversation. I think when we attend conferences and events we need to make it our job to assume the best about everyone and that they have good intentions even if we don't get the greeting or picture we wanted. I think this will also help to reduce the stress put on those with influence and make them feel more comfortable to be themselves by meeting them where they're at, and showing grace and compassion. It also will remind us that we can show honor to people but we only worship Jesus.

Great topic. I love all the questions and points that were made during your discussion! So with my ex I was able to be around a lot of different celebrities, but it's funny because I've literally never been "star struck" by anyone. Reason being, my mom taught me at a very early age that "celebrities" are no different from anyone else. They just happen to make more money for the job they do. So from childhood I've always looked at them as just another human being who has a better paying job 🤣. The same applies for anyone who is on a large platform regardless of platform type. This fact, has at times, caused certain celebrities and people on platforms to become easily aggravated with me. I imagine because they had expectations for me to react to them in a certain or specific way, but for me they were just like everyone else in the room only with a larger platform. Thanks for sharing!! Christ blessings to you!

Parasocial relationships need to be studied more

Jackie is well read, super smart and knows how to articulate herself so well.

This was awesome! I think the celebrity culture tempts christians to be respecters of persons instead of focusing on serving and loving whoever God puts in our sphere of influence.

Great talk! I am an introvert and excessive social interactions in large groups exhausts us, and we recharge best by being alone. Not bad, just different!

I am continually blown away with the wisdom you both have! May God continue to give you wisdom and continued humility! I am proud to support ya'll!

I totally agree with her. Kindness and niceness are not the same things and because so many of us walk in offense when we encounter any thing other than “nice” which is based on social and societal norms at the time… we automatically assume the person is being rude when maybe they just don’t want to be photographed. Being “nice” all the time is very mentally draining because you are becoming a person that is not authentically you just so you won’t offend. Is that useful at time sure but to live in it like a public figure has to is not healthy and I don’t think that is what Jesus wants from us.

Every word spoken here is refreshing and it feels so good to know that people out here get it. Sometimes it appears like no one notices this in church, yet it's everywhere. We should always remember that no one is more important or more valuable than another.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this topic. And thanks for putting aside the “attitude” and recording the episode!!! Keep serving the King!

This is so good! I believe that, as Christian’s, we are called to be seen in some capacity. It will vary in different degrees for each one of us. But God has called us to be the light of this world, & a city on a hill cannot be hidden! We cannot remain in the background, we have to adjust to some sort of spotlight in our careers, communities & roles because we carry light in this dark world. 🙏🏾💫

My God, Ta’Day!!! “I feel like I have to perform” is my life. Even hosting friends or family in my home. It’s exhausting. I, too, am a chill, laid back person and having people around for one periods takes a lot out of me. I feel you 💯!!

Wow, Jackie and Preston! Yes! It's a blessing to hear two humans discuss these things.

It's problematic that with such greatness come such huge responsibility and that although we're apart of such a large family (the family of God) you can't really share yourself with everyone. But, it's so necessary because of the testimony you carry. The balancing act will be the hardest part. Keep up the great work!

So Genuine and True love you’ll spirt. This is my first time watching your podcast. I was actually watching a speech by Maria Stewart that Alfre Woodard read for class after that this poped up. Nothing in life is a coincidence.

This is Fascinating! I think of this often, but don't always know how to define the psychology of it. Thank you for sharing!

This is soooooooo good!!!! "Myself isn't going to always be good enough for everybody". This is sometimes the most stressful truth.

It's that feeling that you get when you finally understand what your "mother" feels when you yourself become a mother. #Epiphany

Very real talk!!! People do take liberties they aren't willing to give. Stay the course I really like your page. God will give you both the wisdom needed for this journey!🎉🎉

ur videos brought me back to youtube. i love ur talks and knowledge. i always feel filled to the soul & challenged to think bigger when i watch yall. god bless yall ❤❤❤

Keep being you Jackie! The people God wants you to reach, you will reach them…despite. God himself created YOU the way YOU are ❤

Sooooo refreshing to hear honesty in those who are put front in ministry.

I can relate to this. I’m not famous. But was an associate pastor at a large church. People knew my daughters name, knew my story, and thought they had a relationship with me. And now that I go to a smaller church people from my old church will come up to me. And I literally have no idea who they are. Super strange.

Great conversation! Chuck DeGroat's book is an excellent source on narcissism! It's crucial to have accountability in church leadership/pastor because the damage that's results from this psudeo-celebrity is dangerous!

Yes Jackie! I agree with you. I often feel like I have to overperform too, especially as a teacher when I am in fact really laid back too! 😅

At first I thought this was apart of this new gen z social media generation, but maybe older folks are like this too? It’s funny because my mom was very adamant about not letting me look up to celebrities. She wouldn’t let me buy magazines or cd’s unless it was gospel. I remember saying raven symone was my role model and she said “why, you don’t know her” that stuck with me! Haha.

This makes me think of church and pastors. My church back home in Ohio, and others, pastor always has his crew around him, we stand in line to get up to talk to him after service etc…everyone trying to get there time….I thought was a normal thing. I live in Washington state now, big church as well but the pastor just walks amongst us, no crew…. No one is trying to get at him, no line to speak etc. so I understand the illusion. If you appear untouchable people are like going crazy but if you are just hanging amongst the people… your human

Enjoyed you both so much at TGC. Thank you for your ministry.

Very dope and needed convo & as always I loved the insights y’all had & how you approached it!! 👍

Jackie, as an introvert, we relate so well😭.

I have given myself whole Minds trips and full-blown anxiety over trying to be enough for people. Whether it be being super friendly to each person because I don't want anybody to be left out, or always being the one to initiate plans, it is very wearing on a person. I do these things because I feel like it is the kind things to do, and then I find myself extremely exhausted by it. Especially when I found out with a lot of my friendships, if I didn't initiate, we weren't going to have plans. I also just try to be super friendly to anybody new at church because I know it's the right thing to do. Sometimes I think I'm trying too hard, it makes me feel really icky inside when I try too hard. I am an infp personality type. I can be very outgoing, but when that switch flips, it switched to the point where I don't want to talk to anybody. I still will because I know it's The Godly thing to do, but man it's very tiring and can really set me off balance. So yes I definitely have the same sort of irritability and mood things that happen because I may have over exerted myself. I have decided and I think it's the right idea, to be more genuine and less nice.

Wow the wisdom and how miss. Jackie can put it in words in mind blowing. Thank you sis🙌🏾❤️

This was so needful in the community! Many of us seek a platform and wish to have the followers, put our lives, losses and victories out there without considering the WHY of the ramifications… like being upset when folks get too personal, when in truth you have invited them into your lives with transparency and person-ability. This type of clarity also explains how people that are fans get offended when those with platforms are standoffish - must do more research regarding para- socialism. ❤️

This conversation is 🔥! The discussion on Genesis 3 and the New Jerusalem so blessed me bc I am the Excel girl so over trying to prove my worth.

Such a great video! I really appreciate the wisdom in this! Thank you. ❤

We have the same personality. I’ve very relaxed and laid back and that’s commonly misinterpreted. It is certainly work to do those things so I’m not labeled negatively. And I see Preston’s point because I realized these people don’t know me. So at times I do have to go out of my way to show people who I really am.

This spoke to my heart. Glory to God!

I got see Jackie speak at the Gospel Coalition workshop, I think in 2017. My friend and I was so excited to see her but we didn’t approach her or talk to her just to respect her space.

This was really good discussion !

This is such a necessary conversation. Thanks for having it.

3 seconds in and when he said it reminds me of when I love you 😭❤️ sooo sweet and also I think about how god loves us even when we don’t have the best attitude! So sweet can’t wait to listen to all of this. Especially since I vlog, I’ve never even wanted to go viral because I know the fame would be awful for me.

So true! And some social media influencers who share so much of their lives have said things like “you don’t know me”, which is false, we do know them but they don’t know us.

I can't miss this sessions,I just can't shout out from Botswana 🇧🇼 I thank you guys for more than 30mins slowly but surely we're going to 1hr😁😁😁

This conversation is so relevant. Thank you

U guys are so good together 🙏🏽

Hey Perry's this was really good. So many need to hear this, especially the local church. So many great topics you guys touch on.

So good, needed to hear and lean on this point of view,l. God brought it through you guys in a way that gave me peace. I've been concerned about the Church I currently attent, worried and having sone doubts about the Pastors, leadership and messages... I've needed help discerning, and this message just helped me a lot. TY 🙏

🙏🏽Thanks Perry’s! This is a question I’ve often thought about. We as a ppl, turn it on when the light is on us… intentionally or not, we shine for others More, then shining for God!

A healthy balance between: going out of your way in order to be nice/warm vs being yourself; allow yourself to feel tired and not-so-social....

Great conversation, Ya'll ❤....I agree wholeheartedly, as children of God we must walk in Love & compassion🙌🏽 no matter the expression and gifts of God's favor in each life😍🤩. Also, healthy boundaries helps mature the individual in love, hopefully🥰. We are different but being redeemed & anointed in Jesus levels & elevates us👑 ✝️👑🕊!

This was awesome. My fav one yet.❤

Excellent talk! Blessings to you guys!!

We are not celebrities we are just individuals doing the work of the kingdom of God or operating in the gifts and talents that God has given us for the world. Therefore we are not obligated to make others feel important because our service has been done and our lives are private regardless of the platforms that we use. In actuality is really a form of idolatry where they have made us into idols so now I believe that it is time for us to have honest conversation with people so they can understand the truth of their behavior because no one is obligated to do something that they are not comfortable doing whether it's taking pictures or holding a conversation because we still have rights and free will.

23:24 is the introvert struggle, speaking as an INFJ. 🙄 I worry about being this way at work as a receptionist sometimes. My "good morning" is majorly monotone but pleasant. On certain cheery days you'll hear an inflection but I cannot be consistent with a cheery disposition. It is draining because it is not me. I just be myself. If anyone takes offense at me being me, that's on them.

Preston's hair & cut is str8 flames🔥🔥🔥

Moral of the story, don’t sell your soul for fame 🤷🏽‍♀️

This was so good!!! ❤

But I still think I want us to be friends tho. 😂 I appreciate your transparency, and I thank the Lord that He uses unique people to do His work. Thank you both for being authentic

Very good discussion, thanks for sharing!! 😊👍🏾🙏🏾❤️

a reminder that we are ALL just human beings living for God should humble every Christian “celebrity” but i really understand the annoyance where complete strangers will act like they know you because of social media. i love being able to reach out and become friends with people through social media but i deleted my platforms next month

Love this conversation!!

I was a chef at a very popular eating spot in my large city. I worked in an open kitchen so people saw me and everyday at worked people would praise my skills. Imagine having a job where people told you how wonderful you are. Then I came home to my life as a single mom of 7 children. That kept my feet to the ground.

Loved this. Woke up feeling like that this morning. I know it's because I'm tired.

Amen. The putting on clothing not in my closet is a much needed word

I have never had celebrity status in the way you are speaking. However, as a retired HS teacher, I have experienced people (parents, grandparents, aunts, etc) that new who I was that I did not know. So, when I was in public I was always on guard. There was a time when I started questioning myself about my chosen career, not because of that necessarily, but because, I was in a field that it was forbidden to talk about Jesus. I saw so many broken kids during that time that needed Jesus. I felt imprisoned in my inability to offer the only Truth that may rescue their soul and give them comfort and peace beyond measure. This weighed so heavy on my heart that I was ready to give it up and find another career. God has been so good to me, an undeserving sinner. But, He loves and guides me anyway. One Saturday I was in the mall. Two of my students saw me and ran to talk and say hi. Out of the blue, one of the girls said, “education needs more people like you. Jesus shines through your eyes.” Wow, I had my answer; I was exactly where I was meant to be. You, are exactly where you are supposed to be. The world needs more people speaking the Truth of our Lord. God has never promised following Him would me easy; but, he does promise He will be right there every step of the way. You two, are doing so much to spread salvation; the goodness of our Lord. Stay strong, walk the path you have been given. You touch people that are out of reach from anyone else! God Bless!

It's like going to corporate events...people have their own perceptions of what "engaged" looks like versus "disengaged"... I'm exhausted after in-person events because "I'm on" the entire time...being "on" is based on the audience's perception, not on mine; which has real ramifications for misconceptions... 🤷🏾‍♀️ I get it.

Wow! Most of the topic in this podcast are topics and questions that Ive talked about in my quiet time with God and close friends. And the fact that you both are having this beautiful discussion about these things blows my mind.

Thankyou for your authenticity. I really appreciate it but you are correct. You do need to have boundaries for your own sakes and your children, especially as they grow up. From New Zealand