Minecraft's Biggest Cheater Just Made A Shocking Confession...

Karl Jobst
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Today we revisit the Minecraft speedrunner MinecrAvenger who recently made a full confession to cheating his speedruns. Let's take a look at what everyone missed.

NiceTwice video: • Every Minecraft S...
MinecrAvenger video: • WHY DID I CHEAT? ...

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26 Jan 2023



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Comentários 2 373
Karl Jobst
Karl Jobst Mês atrás
Hope you all had a great start to the year. Big thanks to Geologie for sponsoring the vid. Head to or scan the QR code on the screen and use code KARLJOBST and take their free skincare diagnostic to get 50% off skincare trial set. On top of that, they are giving you an exclusive bonus offer on one of their brand-new skin, hair, and body products, of your choice when you add it to your trial.
ForestCity Fishing
ForestCity Fishing Mês atrás
This is why I cant speedrun anything...too many cheaters. You think you caught them all...but no...never. Theres always another way.
CODEwater Airsoft and More
@Zlatko Lon you are in my book
Zlatko Lon
Zlatko Lon Mês atrás
Please note that I am not a legend, so stop calling me like one.
CODEwater Airsoft and More
common Karl W
Joe Blazer
Joe Blazer Mês atrás
Vitamins from Alex Jones are much better for you *and* your skin.
Csúb - Az Űrmedve
At this point there should be a Cheating% category, where we can see how far these cheaters can go, no holding back.
Stella Marie Fanboy.
Stella Marie Fanboy. 2 dias atrás
I was thinking of someone who purposely cheats just to see if they can get away with it. He cheats to the best of his ability the first day and than if he gets caught, he looks at the feedback given from other players. And obvious things he could’ve changed, After that he cheats again but he improves it. He continuously does this until the run is so perfect that it’s almost unrecognizable as a cheat, he plays a few games legitimately to throw people off- idk I just thought it would be interesting.
RIDGEY -BEAST- 6 dias atrás
emiliano zamora
emiliano zamora 9 dias atrás
​@Joseph Still a tas can include a mod that increases odds for stuff, like a data pack that makes 1/1e90 chances happen every time
Gomam0n 12 dias atrás
@Joseph Still not quite. What TASers do is that they simply replay the part of the game that requires RNG over and over until the desired outcome happen, aka re-recording . You don't see the skip in the final TAS because most TAS tools/emus with TAS tools can just load states or go back in time. Note that TASers have a few more tools than just that like slow motion or advancing frame per frame selecting inputs manually.
marreco 21 dia atrás
Cheating% is, by definition, TAS. I think above all else, the speedrunning community should stop with the mindless worship of luck and improvision and appreciate the efffort and skill TAS also requires.
scarlet spectre
scarlet spectre Mês atrás
The fact that minecravenger is himself the one who alerted the community to and told them how to spot these shenanigans during the dream debacle only to get a reverse uno from said community is just hilarious
Adrian Alvarez
Adrian Alvarez Mês atrás
That’s why tas exist
lostsanityreturned Mês atrás
I just want to see the armies of dream supporters get their fingers out to defend monecravenger ;)
Marcelo Nunes
Marcelo Nunes Mês atrás
The community stans the big fish and crush the smallers.
RPA syahril
RPA syahril Mês atrás
he knew because he use it XD
Judgement Kazzy
Judgement Kazzy Mês atrás
Honestly, this makes me wonder why more cheaters don't go down this route when they get caught. Coming clean and showing exactly how you did it can be a big help to the community, and because of that, save them a lot of ill-will in the long run. Not only is it genuinely the right thing to do, but even thinking about it selfishly, it still seems like a no-brainer.
Sidelined Angel
Sidelined Angel 15 dias atrás
How about just not cheating?
Lorenzo Mautino
Lorenzo Mautino Mês atrás
@Jacob Shirley narcissistic people always prioritize their own live over others, they love themselves so much that everything else is not so important, it's not just the way they look, it's loving most things about them in a exaggerated manner and depending on the grade it can be just having small priorities when taking choices, or it could be not accepting any criticism against them for their bad actions.
Eliz Mês atrás
For the same reason they cheat, pride.
ScottPress Mês atrás
It would make no difference to me. Cheaters are trash, I don't care what reasons they had to be trash.
Kooler'S tream
Kooler'S tream Mês atrás
@Stomping Peak huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh? huh?
Master Gigachad
Master Gigachad Mês atrás
These cheaters are the literal definition of “takes one to know one”.
COK Til You Drop
COK Til You Drop Mês atrás
@a wise man a wise man once said "what is this jenga tower of cheaters"
a wise man
a wise man Mês atrás
Dream helped catch drem and then this bruh what ia this jenga tower of cheaters
COK Til You Drop
COK Til You Drop Mês atrás
yes and no. I mean after watching cheaters and knowing how they play you can sometimes spot it. but its rare
junk man
junk man Mês atrás
Reminds me of election data experts
EighmyLupin Mês atrás
You mentioned that most faked runs are caught immediately. It would be an interesting video idea to look at a bunch of them and see all the stupidly bad ways people have tried to cheat.
LilacMonarch 10 dias atrás
unfortunately most of the cheated runs you find are clickbait or obvious jokes so it's hard to find the serious ones
COK Til You Drop
COK Til You Drop Mês atrás
lmao I hate cheaters but this lowkey makes me wanna test how long it would take ppl to notice if I was cheating (not gonna but i am curious)
Saberhap Mês atrás
@JoJoVersus well make it again
trashpanda Mês atrás
you can search up for runs like big tony and drem did but most of faked speedruns videos are clickbait nowadays
JoJoVersus Mês atrás
He already made that video
Tobeh Mês atrás
I think a super interesting speed run category could be “this run has cheating, but if no one can accurately guess how, it stands until it’s figured out or some one beats the time.” It would take people being 100% honest when some one guesses accurately but it could be super creative Edit: maybe the person who uploads the cheated run will let the moderation team know how it was cheated so the community can start investigating without needing the runner to be present for it.
Tobeh 17 horas atrás
@Laezar exactly
Laezar 2 dias atrás
So basically penn & teller "fool us" but for speedruns?
ccaagg Mês atrás
@Super Cyclone That already exists - there's a datapack that removes almost all RNG (drop rates, dragon perch, mobs) which people do runs using.
Ben Mês atrás
It also lets people get better at finding cheats
Super Cyclone
Super Cyclone Mês atrás
I agree! One, that sounds entertaining to watch, and two, it's a good outlet for cheating. There could also be a reduced RNG category where loot and dragon behaviors are made more consistent through a community chosen resource pack. I would never try speed running minecraft now because of all the RNG on top of the high skill ceiling, but something like this would help.
Freddy Conover
Freddy Conover Mês atrás
These cheaters exposing each other is just a real life version of the pointing Spider-Man meme
Local Idiot
Local Idiot Mês atrás
That really does sum it up
ProGamersTop Mês atrás
Mine Craft
Mine Craft Mês atrás
@NobleLaika 😂😂😂
Arrich Christian
Arrich Christian Mês atrás
I would imagine it as "this player is cheating. No that player is cheating"
EinFisch Mês atrás
@kraptastic333 prestige was just overall a masterpiece
Alexander Hatt
Alexander Hatt Mês atrás
Being a professional video editor who follows speedruns, it makes me wonder how effectively someone could actually cheat a run. A lot of the ways they catch cheaters are ways you can fix in post production if you know what ur doing, kinda crazy to think about
Didack Mês atrás
The only thing that makes it truly difficult is that there are so many small details to fix that most will fail. At least until someone is caught because of those and they learn from there But they have to consistently do it regardless.
Pixel Pastiche
Pixel Pastiche Mês atrás
I bet you there is some strange thing in the way that dolphins spawn at a given depth that leads to them facing a certain direction and then in his run the pathing of the dolphin shows an error in how dolphins are supposed to swim because it needed to correct it’s path or didn’t respond to the presence of the player model in the right way. Legit when it comes to the Minecraft videos every bit of proof seems as insane as every bit of the legitimate runs. That is impressive and terrifying.
OR56 Mês atrás
Dolphins AI turns off when the player gets far enough away. I don’t know if that is relevant, by just a weird fact
gregergreg Mês atrás
When these things get uncovered it's kind of like magic. After you're shown the secret, you think "oh it's so obvious, why didn't I see that?" I don't play Minecraft but I can see how the Obsidian label thing is one of those hidden-in-plain-sight situations.
Bro koga
Bro koga Mês atrás
@zartex krontaculys I have never played Minecraft but speed running any game is always interesting to watch and also how people try to cheat them.
zartex krontaculys
zartex krontaculys Mês atrás
@Hannes Steffenhagen no I didn't realize that why, oh. Ohhh...
Hannes Steffenhagen
@zartex krontaculys you do realise that this channel covers a bunch of topics related to speedrunning, not just Minecraft right?
zartex krontaculys
zartex krontaculys Mês atrás
Why are you watching a minecraft cheating video if you don't even play the game 💀
plaidsubset 1421
plaidsubset 1421 Mês atrás
Shower thought:The reason cheaters never prosper is because the ones that get away with it aren’t known to be cheaters
Anthropomorphic Peanut
I don't excuse cheating, but props to him for coming clean for things nobody even knew
Fusion Space
Fusion Space Mês atrás
If he wasn't caught, his next plan was to start mailing riddles to the authorities.
Ben Jason
Ben Jason Mês atrás
bruh jack the ripper
Julio Hernandez
Julio Hernandez Mês atrás
This is the Zodiac Speaking...
The Cool Axolotl Nova
Dang we really live in the worst timeline
katie kawaii
katie kawaii Mês atrás
Shane Davis
Shane Davis Mês atrás
Cheating is super common, so having this guy explain everything is a pretty good move, I respect that.
Syphist Mês atrás
Glad they came clean and even explained what wasn't found. It would be cool if people like that could be used as a reference of sorts by the mods to see if suspicious runs might be cheated and how. I would be reluctant to make a previous cheater a mod, but consulting them I can have no problem with.
Project Swift
Project Swift Mês atrás
I honestly think there should be "manipulated" speed run categories where people can submit manipulated runs. These runs are open to scrutiny for 1 month which players are allowed to scrutinise the runs for how they are manipulated. At the end of one month, if players cannot pick how it is manipulated, it is then entered into the leaderboards along with the player revealing how the run has been manipulated. I picture this working similar to TAS runs, allowing players to identify new strategies for cheating and allowing for higher quality control for actual submitted speed runs.
Crescent Raven
Crescent Raven Mês atrás
I think that one thing this story says is that if a top runner who streams is getting most of their pbs off stream, that's a red flag. It may mean nothing in the end, but it's definitely worth taking a second look at
J Mês atrás
It’s somewhat satisfying that he’s confessing and pointing the tricks and splice he did to inform others that speenrun can be easily faked
Top Weeb
Top Weeb Mês atrás
Watching this video and seeing how cheating spawns and drop rates is almost undetectable makes me think Minecraft speedrunning must have rampant cheating.
Tim Flick
Tim Flick Mês atrás
yep, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a single run on the leader boards that's legit.
fasddfadfgasdgs Mês atrás
tbh moment he said there was more cheating first thing I thought of was the gravel manipulation. Unfortunately that one wouldn't mater cause you can keep replaying the seed til it happens unless streaming. Then it becomes very easily caught. But basically look how instinctual it was for him to just immediately use it vs trying to reset it or redo the gravel.
Barddz Mês atrás
Minecraftavngr even mentions some runners he suspects are cheating, because of how many good runs there runners get in a short period of time
Tim F.
Tim F. Mês atrás
@Reagan Dow they get that entitlement from their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. this generation ain't special, mate.
TheLifeLaVita Mês atrás
@Reagan Dow because they can. People are dumb enough to care about "competitive minecraft speedrunning" (impossible to say without laughing), why not cheat? :P
Andreas Thiemke
Andreas Thiemke Mês atrás
I love Karl Jobsts outro. that "I WILL see you in the next video", like he just knows that his content is so good that everyone returns to watch more.
Kryptic Mês atrás
I hate to say I "respect" someone who cheated but I do have respect for the complete honesty that Minecravenger showed in this video. No better way to learn what to look for in cheated runs than to learn from someone who has done it themselves. Edit: Realized you said basically the same thing as I did here later in the video. While cheating is an incredibly scummy thing to do in competition, I don't believe that all cheaters are terrible people. People that can own up to it and even actively help out the community in finding other cheaters should be given credit when it's due.
LilacMonarch 10 dias atrás
Yeah, exposing yourself that way isn't something most people have the balls to do
I am not here
I am not here Mês atrás
Hey Karl, Just wanted to say you're looking great and hope the cancer treatments are going well, looking forward to all of the great content from the OG absolute legend in 2023!
Brian Clingenpeel
Brian Clingenpeel 28 dias atrás
Look at that list of patrons you absolute legend! Seriously though you deserve it man. Your videos are very well done and EXTREMELY well researched.
X-Tech Gam!nG
X-Tech Gam!nG Mês atrás
Imagine the time and effort required to watch and verify all of these speedruns. I'd be surprised if anyone actually checks these that thoroughly.
AcelShock Mês atrás
this situation really reminds me of the trackmania cheating scandals where a new competitive patch is made so that only runs on there can be submitted. I think its a good route to go for these types of large speedrunning communities as a whole, albeit needing a lot more effort from the moderation side
Jack The Ripper
Jack The Ripper Mês atrás
@Trackpad "decade-long elite level career" ....clearly it wasnt "elite level" if they have to cheat 😮‍💨
blargg Mês atrás
@Proxima Oh cool, that's clever and simple.
Proxima Mês atrás
@blargg The RNG is given to the player from an external server, so this would be detectable by observing the run and noticing mismatches between the recorded roll and what actually happens in the run
blargg Mês atrás
@Proxima Couldn't the cheater just mod the auditing code to make it look like nothing is wrong with the rolls?
SaltyWaffles Mês atrás
Wasn't there only one major trackmania cheating scandal? Outside of maybe really early on (like almost a decade ago), just the one with some players playing at half-speed while off-stream because the replay recorder system didn't track that particular variable? The developers fixed that one issue in the patch and there hasn't been any problem since, because the game's deterministic physics, accurate replay recording system, and how easy it is to verify runs using those tools.
Cktime ThirtyTwo
Cktime ThirtyTwo Mês atrás
“I only faked one run” Literally every speed runner who’s cheated multiple different speed runs 😂
Sorren Blitz
Sorren Blitz Mês atrás
No no don't scrutinize my older runs. They were legit I promise.
lightonthehill4 Mês atrás
The interesting thing is, in the video back in November, I noticed that he got flint from gravel on his first try in the impossible chest speedrun, and thought, that's incredibly lucky, he got lucky, alongside cheating. And I believe Karl even mentioned that the dolphin swimming alongside and giving him a speed boost was another lucky break that couldn't have been cheated, in a cheated speedrun. But when taken together, and after knowing the truth, it seems so obvious. He got lucky, while cheating, so it's logical that the luck was cheated.
Flare the Fox
Flare the Fox Mês atrás
i honestly have respect for this guy for coming clean, especially about the stuff they couldn't prove
Leythis 26 dias atrás
Love it or hate it. His dedication to cheating and how good he is at it is actually pretty impressive.
Dale Adams
Dale Adams Mês atrás
I can appreciate him coming clean and explaining the cheating that he did. It will help both him and the community get past this issue
Michael B
Michael B Mês atrás
For those of you who don't want to watch MinecrAvenger's video, the reasons he cheated were: 1. It was a fun way for him to explore the game's code and learn more about coding 2. It was too easy to get away with 3. He had a lot of other things going on in his life, so cheating was a way for him to devote less time to speedrunning while still remaining competitve While I appreciate him coming clean, and I appreciate him not just using the old "there was too much pressure on me to do well" excuse for cheating, I personally don't really find any of these reasons to be acceptable excuses.
Tamsen Miller-Baum
Tamsen Miller-Baum Mês atrás
Cheating is wrong. PERIOD.
DutchFurnace Mês atrás
Nonsense reasons, as obviously none of those require you to then go and upload it to the internet and earn prestige/money from pretending like you're doing it legit. You can completely get away with learning and adjusting the code, and having fun with your code changing results, to give you more time to spend on other parts of your life, by playing singleplayer/private and/or being open about it when uploading videos about it in public.
Displayer Mês atrás
@intrnl It would stand if MinecrAvenger wasn't too incompetent to get away with it, yeah
intrnl Mês atrás
@Displayer yeah, but no one caught him until way later, so his reasoning still stands, don't you think?
BloodyN1nja Mês atrás
I think someone SHOULD do a video on cheaters that were caught immediately. Like, Astralspiff made some videos on people submitting really bad runs for Poppy Playtime, which he moderates the leaderboards for. Something like that for every popular speed game could bring more attention to the existence of cheaters, and make catching out better cheaters easier
Public Domain
Public Domain Mês atrás
Crazy to hear about everything that happened. Thanks for being informative as always Karl Jobst!
Aloysius Goh
Aloysius Goh Mês atrás
There should be an Any% max luck run, where piglins only drop pearls, blazes drop max blaze rods, gravel always drops flint, and dragon perches at a fixed time. Seems like it would be fun
Chaste Mês atrás
This brings up something i will always think, that cheaters will always be the best at catching other cheaters, and be the best moderators
Harrison Karn
Harrison Karn Mês atrás
A mod that runners could required to use when recording runs is newchunks, which shows what chunks are new and which ones have been previously loaded in by players. It is usually used as a cheat in multiplayer servers for base hunting, but it would've busted the cheater when he spawned in a dolphin to swim to a ruined portal faster.
mazda9624 Mês atrás
Honestly what I find crazy is *just how many* different cheating methods he employed at the same time. Like jeez at some point you'd think "damn I'm really just not that good at speed running this game" when you're using such an arsenal of cheats in tandem.
Michael (Last Name)
@GammaJK This is why I like set seed runs
Z The Cat
Z The Cat Mês atrás
@GammaJK Yeah, that's an interesting idea. There's probably people who deserve to be way higher on the Minecraft leader boards, but just aren't because of bad RNG. And there's certainly people who shouldn't be as high as they are on the leader boards, but good RNG just put them there. significantly increasing the luck so players can just mostly test their skill if they so choose is a good solution. Either that, or you may just have to find a new game to speed run that's not so luck dependent.
GammaJK Mês atrás
@Steven, A.D. Exactly, I think speedrunning just gets boring when it's entirely dependent on RNG. Everyone using the same speed and just playing over and over and over again to get that tiny little bit of RNG advantage over everyone else. There should be a speedrun category of "100% luck" so that the things that reduce time aren't dumb things "lucky chest loot" or "lucky mob drop", but actual skill. Every mob drops what you need every time, every chest is has its maximum possible natural loot. Then people can improve their skills and look for better seeds to break the record, not just replay the same runs over and over again.
Flare (PK Fire)
Flare (PK Fire) Mês atrás
if he was bad at the game his cheating wouldn't have been so subtle
Steven, A.D.
Steven, A.D. Mês atrás
idk minecraft speedruns take a lot of skill but fuck there's so much RNG, right? most of the cheats he used were to improve things that are controlled by RNG. and i think if the dude actually sucked at runs people would have been suspicious way earlier
Grégory Makles
Grégory Makles Mês atrás
What we need is a live competition where all speedrunner get the same seed at the same time. I would watch that.
『PURPLE HAZE』 Mês atrás
On one hand, cheating in a speedrun is an all-around shitty thing to do. But on the other.. man, I kinda respect the honesty required to come clean about literally _everything,_ even stuff people could not have known about otherwise.
Francisco P
Francisco P Mês atrás
Hi, im not a speedrunner myself, just a gamer and very curious person and i always find your videos very interesting, so just spreading some love, keep at it you absolute legend!
Igor Budzhak
Igor Budzhak Mês atrás
I had exactly the same idea. To create client (or mod) which records all calls to RNG and RNG initialization. It doesn't eliminate cheating, but makes it much more harder.
blargg Mês atrás
The most bullet-proof approach to anti-cheating-via-mods is a recording of player input that's fed to a trusted engine (like I take it was done with TrackMania). Then they can be fed to a trusted copy of the game and the movie generated. This requires a completely deterministic game engine with no effect from the machine configuration/speed, and having the proper version to replay the player input to. This doesn't stop cheating with tool-assistance, generating and editing the player input frame by frame for the perfect run, though.
c l o t h i n g h a n g e r
speedrunning communities need people who literally only find new ways to cheat runs, and then let moderators try to find all the ways they cheated, and if the mods can't find them all then the runner tells them what they did
ADM Mês atrás
nice, everybody loves a snitch
Vaelosh Mês atrás
Basically Penn and Teller: Bullshit! for speedrunning.
Ferociousfeind Mês atrás
This is a common practice in cybersecurity, the role of a white-hat hacker is to attack a system in every way they can imagine, to alert the managers/developers/owners of the system to the exploits they can find. It should be a more widespread practice.
Grant M.
Grant M. Mês atrás
Fun fact, there are people who work in cybersecurity and physical security (i.e. physically entering businesses, corporate offices, etc.) who do exactly that. They're called "penetration testers", or "pentesters" for short. Probably the most well-known pentesting expert is a man named Deviant Ollam- if you want to know more about pentesting, look up his DEFCON talks on BRvid, they're quite entertaining. Professional penetration testing is actually paid contract work that has been deliberately requested and paid for by the "target" themselves. Some people do pentesting with perfectly good intentions, but without actually getting permission to do so, and as such are unauthorized. In cybersecurity those people are typically referred to as "White-hat" hackers (alternatively, there's "Grey-hat" if their intentions behind attempting a hack are questionable, and "Black-hat" if their intentions are nefarious).
Brandon Porter
Brandon Porter Mês atrás
I believe some people did this in a few game communities that had rampant cheating. They basically submitted blatantly cheated runs in communities with rampant cheating as the only way to get a WR. In order to expose how lax the moderators were. As a result they were permabanned from the entire platform for being a known Cheater. Lesson learned don’t expose bad moderation because moderators would rather cover up cheating sometimes than have it exposed thst they will let cheating slip through for their game getting progression of records because it brings their game more Attention as having an active community with progressing records.
Lemming Mês atrás
Please do more on the actual top runners. Every time someones bumped off the top due to cheating, there's a far greater story of runners that did it legit just waitng to be limelighted!
AdvSoup Mês atrás
I think taking the time to point out and confess to all of this cheats is the right thing to do. Showing the community what's possible and opening the can of worms shows that he is with us striving for a more honest and deserved world record leaderboard. He still cheated, that is bad, but personally, he could be a powerful ally, and help expose a lot more runs, solidifying his place as hopefully, the Last great Minecraft cheater.
Airestith Mês atrás
And this is how cheaters can redeem themselves. They may never gain respect from the community or be able to speedrun anymore and taken seriously. But if a group of cheaters came together to explain how they cheated they could provide the moderators new methods to look for or ways to see if it was cheated. To me they would gain some respect back for trying to help legitimize all runs giving insight on the other side of things from their perspective for the better.
acatterz Mês atrás
The speedrun mod has been talked about in the community for years. It's mentioned every time a cheater gets exposed and still doesn't exist. If the speedrun moderators really wanted it, it would have been made a long time ago. Dream was caught in 2021. It's 2023 now.
JE watch
JE watch Mês atrás
Well, it does seem to show that most cheaters will just get bolder until they're destined to get caught at least.
E1025 Mês atrás
I'm watching this as an VFX animator. So many of these could've been easily hidden if he had some after effects knowledge. I have no doubt other people do, and are covering up cheating.
anononomous Mês atrás
@ArchibaldClumpy You don't need to be some vfx god to make splices undetectable to humans or machines. You just have to be smart and meticulous about how and where you make and conceal the edits. A frame/pixel/bit perfect splice can't magically be detected by some complex algorithm or AI, no matter how powerful.
dandy Mês atrás
Yeah.. sorry but Minecraft speedruns can't be taken seriously..
RodniDemental Mês atrás
@Xenro66 You can only cover up what you are currently aware is observable. Another method yet unthought of might be able to measure something previously unseen.
Xenro66 Mês atrás
@ArchibaldClumpy If someone is dedicated enough to make high quality, seamless splices, they're going to have knowledge about the waveform not lining up. Not to give ideas, but as a musician using a DAW, all it would take is analysing what sounds are being played and what needs to *keep* (or start) playing, get those sounds from the game files, overlay them with a linear fade with the correct frame timings and volume... and the splice will be absolutely undetectable. I don't know if anybody would actually be willing to go to those lengths, but you never know and you would never find out.
Grigori Gahan
Grigori Gahan Mês atrás
Software wise there is things we can do. For one, if someone were to build a VM image and take the hash of it and require all valid speedruns to take place within that VM. Within the VM, you have a preinstalled MC which has been modded to display the hash of the binaries (and the VM) as a watermark. You could even have a an api call which reports those hashes to the website when the MC client is closed pre submission. Now combine that with someone that has the editing chops to analyze the videos themselves and you have something significantly harder to cheat I'd think.
Evan Guthrie
Evan Guthrie Mês atrás
It's hard to not feel a little admiration for this guy who got away with so much.
Databrawler the Bashing Meme
FINALLY! Someone who makes actual good fake speed runs!
Kerr_b Mês atrás
If there's one thing I have learnt from you Karl, it is that anyone who cheats in speedrunning *will* eventually get caught, no matter how long it takes.
Emdy Mês atrás
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the client log of the instance list out all the activity in that instance and gives an accurate history of what the runner did in that game. Would allow you to check for world switching, datapacks and mods being loaded, etc. Of course you could probably edit the file before sending it but it might help catch inexperienced cheaters a bit easier since it's very time consuming to edit the file completely.
Sliven Kage
Sliven Kage Mês atrás
Watching those cheating scandals as a fellow speedrunner and a game mod in NFS games makes me sad . Speedrunning should be the ultimate showcase of skill + intelligence in very fast pace . In the past people were cheating waaaaay less and they were trusting each other more , nowadays even though we have better proof of a run , people tend to cheat more .. very very sad . Anyways great video as always Karl !
UltimateSpinDash Mês atrás
Tbh what really gets me about this particular cheating skandal is that MinecrAvenger not only tarnished his own reputation, but also that of his brother just due to their association.
Blacktiger's Hearthstone Adventure channel
@Elisabeth Heiman I don't know... It is hard to believe that NiceTwice did not know about his brothers cheating, especially since he also does speedruns. This is not how things work in the real world. I believe NiceTwice started minecraft speedrunning before MinecrAvenger and clearly was an inspiration for his brother to try it as well. Or maybe it was quite opposite. It does not matter. In any case they certainly discussed speedrunning a lot. If you have common hobbies within your family, then you just do. Always. Under these circumstances it is impossible to hide that you are cheating on such a large scale with hours of investigation, cracking internal alhorithms, massive code changes and such. No way. And you probably would not hide it from your brother anyway. We-e-ell... maybe it would be possible if they were sworn competitors... but MinecrAvenger did not mention it in his list of cheat reasons. But even if NiceTwice knew it, I do not hold him responsible for not reporting it. In many countries even courts can't force you to testify against close relatives. Normally this kind of stuff is discussed privately. Or maybe NiceTwice just did not want to be involved. Or did not care. He probably could not do much about it anyway apart from making it public... which 95% of people would not do even being in bad relations with the cheater. Family bonds kinda take priority. And I do not think that he is a cheater himself. Using his brothers cheats would be immediately apparent and it is very unlikely that he did his own code investigation when his brothers work is readily available.
Elisabeth Heiman
Elisabeth Heiman Mês atrás
@Aaron Exton​Agreed. Also, Karl did say that there’s no evidence NiceTwice had any idea that his brother was cheating in the first place nor any evidence that he was also a cheater. Unless there’s actual hard evidence that NiceTwice is also a cheater, he shouldn’t be treated as such simply due to the fact that his brother is one.
Aaron Exton
Aaron Exton Mês atrás
@PointsofData You're still falling into the fallacy though. _"if NiceTwice isn't thoroughly investigated and cleared, he could also just...not be coming forward and hoping his own cheating goes under the radar."_ This could be said about literally any runner in the game. Literally any of them. The fact that NiceTwice happened to crawl out of the same vagina that MineCravenger did has nothing to do with the likelihood of him cheating. To believe otherwise is logically fallacious.
PointsofData Mês atrás
@DarkZodiacZZ as far as I'm aware, no mobs are going after NiceTwice. So the phrase "guilty by association" only comes into this because the person I replied to used it. NiceTwice's reputation is still tarnished by his brother's actions by suspicion.
BlueFire Animations
@DarkZodiacZZ Yes. "Suspicious by association" would be fine in my opinion.
Artimidorus Mês atrás
Meanwhile, I'm simply wondering how he safely broke the bed in the nether. The rest of this just amazes me since so much of Minecraft is RNG, so I just assume any run could be faked or real depending on if they could ever duplicate it again (fake on my view if they can again).
DSR-115 Mês atrás
I do wonder when it comes to created cheated runs if there are people test how well moderated a catagory is. Someone who is willing to come up with a means of modding or hacking a game to make thing seem it was all RNG, get something like top 10 or top 5 or even WR, submit it and see if it gets denied then if it doesn't they bring it to the attention of the community of that certain speedrun and for them to improve how things are done to counter such a possible mod or hack. Keep making these videos and being a truly absolute legend.
Doggy wooof
Doggy wooof Mês atrás
His ultimate goal was probably just to see what limits of cheats can he hide in a run Afterall, the more obvious ones were probably to hide the smaler ones
Mr. Surlaw
Mr. Surlaw Mês atrás
Even if Mike doesn't have runs accepted anymore, I hope that he could have a position as that "ex-con detective" type of guy. Takes-one-to-know-one folk are just as good at and valuable for cheat detection as the pros.
Feranogame Mês atrás
Btw, just an observation: you *don't* even need coding knowledge to modify drop rates. Loot tables in Minecraft are in the game files, and modifying them via a datapack or directly in the version file is as easy as changing the number from, for example, 0.1 to 0.15
Agunakotoru Mês atrás
Cheating so deep I wouldn't be surprised if Minecravenger was actually playing terraria the whole time
1th to comment.
1th to comment. Mês atrás
bounded scythe
bounded scythe Mês atrás
Electrum 55
Electrum 55 Mês atrás
I'm so dumb, I didn't even notice that he had a grappling hook the whole time
I eat charcoal
I eat charcoal Mês atrás
@1th to comment. explains why he had accessory slots in the first place
BX56 Mês atrás
Explains the Last Prism he was using.
Raif Ege Özay
Raif Ege Özay Mês atrás
There are probably many speedrunners that cheat but they cheat in a way that its completely undetectable.
Bill Dewall
Bill Dewall Mês atrás
Great video, great topic. At parts it feels like Apollo Legend's contributions on the issue of cheating in speedrunning are evident. I think of him every time another video like this comes out.
SteampunkSavage Mês atrás
This just proves how many cheaters likely lie at the top of many gaming communities. Imagine if those splices were done without those simple errors!
Au Ninja
Au Ninja Mês atrás
If I recall correctly, Dream also called someone out for cheating, once. So the cycle continues.
Josh Pillault
Josh Pillault Mês atrás
I have to admit even though I hadn’t considered it, I’m glad you mentioned that it’s respectable that he fully came clean. That’s a very good point and no matter what, I feel like any gamer who hates cheating shouldn’t talk shit about him. Cheating happens - if it does, I guess this is a best case scenario thanks to him.
Zinras Mês atrás
Can't say I'm surprised because MC has always been a top contender for speedruns that are easy to cheat. It's ridiculously easy to mod, it's so stupidly complex that even marginally changing something can make WR runs exponentially easier (but still take time to get) and the scene is still pretty new and inexperienced compared to others. IMO, the moderation team should take a page out of real world sports and even government agencies: If someone's figured out how to smash the system, hire them and have them show you everything. Sort of like how there are completely above-the-board hacker conventions and security conventions where burglary specialists give talks and demonstrate tools.
Spice Smuggler
Spice Smuggler Mês atrás
What a horrible comparison lol
poudink Mês atrás
@Zinras difficult to ask them for help when the majority of them won't even admit they did it.
Lake Lure
Lake Lure Mês atrás
I identified the 13 year old
Hirame Sensei
Hirame Sensei Mês atrás
@ogre589 that's grey hat. white hat is done only with the prior agreement of the victim
The Ten Cent Story
The Ten Cent Story Mês atrás
I don't know much about Minecraft yet love watching Karl's videos. I suspect many Minecraft speedrunners are going to be caught cheating.
ImmortaINub Mês atrás
It was nice of him to come clean like this.
Reinis Trasūns
Reinis Trasūns Mês atrás
On my death-bed I will tell everyone I cheated on all of my speedruns in order to confuse people, because I'm not a speedrunner. Thanks Karl for insight! Ir really like to watch your videos!
Lightning King
Lightning King Mês atrás
For anyone wondering how the nether portal splice worked. Essentially, what he did was log out while looking at the obsidian. Then he likely made a backup of the world while logged out to essentially make a save state (I've personally done this in a story based minecraft series to give the illusion that I never died and keep the story in one continuous line). Whenever he messed up, he could either go to a backup or copy the data from the backup into the world to keep attempting from that spot, making it look continuous. When he logged back in, the tooltip popped up for obsidian, which revealed the splice. There are actually a few other ways to do similar things. My personal favorite is sleeping in a bed. When you sleep in a bed, you will always spawn at the same spot and look in the same direction no matter where you are when you sleep. You could also use commands, but that's boring.
Christine Sinclair
Christine Sinclair Mês atrás
Don't forget, he always made sure he was just a bit better than his own brother!
Sdsdfdu Mês atrás
Imagine you're at the airport and the TSA stops you because they found a bottle containing 5oz of liquid, then you show them all the guns and explosives you brought, and explain exactly how you got them through security.
Alex CZ
Alex CZ Mês atrás
Nah, he used those already, remember?
LilacMonarch 10 dias atrás
I wonder if one could make a hidden mod with an external console so that you could invisibly toggle on your cheats for a single run occasionally while on stream, making it look much less statistically infeasible. But I guess most cheaters probably wouldn't have the patience for that, since you would only have that one shot each time
Jed Grahek
Jed Grahek Mês atrás
Seems like there are a hell of a lot of undetectable ways to cheat in this game
Vogonp 42
Vogonp 42 Mês atrás
There should be a cheat detection speed runs, where the goal is to figure out how a run was cheated as fast as possible.
Ørphntw1n Mês atrás
What’s crazy is he is still really fast and a good runner. None of this was necessary.
Moh Buddy
Moh Buddy Mês atrás
As I have been saying for YEARS now, you cannot have speed running without a standard for ensuring that NO ONE is cheating. This is just more proof of that.
Predator 20357
Predator 20357 Mês atrás
This is insane, it’s like someone being stopped to take out their phone before going through the metal detector before they essentially just spill out 50 different metal objects
blargg Mês atrás
That scene in The Matrix.
3.14 Mês atrás
After watching MinecrAvengers video, I wonder if having a type of "pen testing" for speedruns could be a good idea. Like people getting explicitly tasked with trying to get a faked run in the leaderboards in order to detect security gaps in the system.
MrMurder Mês atrás
I really like how we live so close together, all the time I watch people who life halfway across the world but no you, it makes me feel closer to the videos you make because you are looking at something as an Australian
LucianDevine Mês atrás
11:35 This is what I'm looking forward to for this exact reason. With so many people being able to change so many things about their own games and it being so hard to catch, this feels like what the competitive speedrunning community needs.
LucianDevine Mês atrás
@King Grigori We can only hope that the same people who would try to make this client would try to test things like this to safeguard against it and continually improve the cheat detection as the cheating gets more sophisticated.
King Grigori
King Grigori Mês atrás
Hate to break it to you but it’s generally considered that this effort will be futile. It’s fairly trivial to get around this type of cheat detection, either faking the client, faking whatever logs or verification, or modifying the code of the client to allow your changes.
Love your content Karl. Good way to spend a lunch break.
🌸kikosawa🌸 29 dias atrás
Provided how hard it is to not get caught cheating head on, I'm sure I wouldn't stop cheating neither if I was able to pull this off once. It's just a game in itself.
Vreschen Mês atrás
Karl Jobst is the only BRvidr I can think of whose clickbait-y titles aren't actually clickbait, and in fact help to encapsulate the madness contained within each video. Great content as always, Karl.
Getsuga Tenshou
Getsuga Tenshou Mês atrás
I mean, what other video has something like 'Shocking Confession' in the title and said confession is *_actually_* shocking.
Tbone24! Mês atrás
Turd Mês atrás
Mr beast's content has only gone downhill since the squid game vid. I would say its mostly due to the fact that his content was only entertaining as he would always top his last video. Also, most of his content has moments that pull on your heart strings. It's hard to be biased towards things that make you emotionally feel something.
Unquestionable Existance
Mr Beast
Wheatum Mês atrás
ok but how cool would it be if the mods organized an event where people submit cheated runs and the mods try to find it like a challenge
DavBotsArcade Mês atrás
finally, someone using their heads and making a log client for runs.
Private Joker
Private Joker Mês atrás
I wish every youtuber of every topic narrates like Karl does...
Loadstone Mês atrás
Honestly I think they should allow increased drop rates because getting a world record should be a lot less about your luck and much more about being good at speed running.
Mike Mês atrás
Hope all is going well on the legal case mate
Paul Sullivan
Paul Sullivan Mês atrás
Honestly, these videos get me so interested in TAS runs personally. Would love a category that intentionally blurs the line in this manner. Like being required to list out your changes, but let not exactly where they happen while allowing the community to try and pinpoint exact locations where the tool assists come in. lol
FlyingStone Mon
FlyingStone Mon Mês atrás
I'd love to see different types of cheaters use different techniques to climb the ladder or show crazy game breaking runs, TAS or not!
5peciesunkn0wn Mês atrás
Cheat% does sound like a fun thing to watch. I would be very curious at how quickly a Cheat% All Achievements Run goes.
Cain XVII Mês atrás
I would watch a cheat%
TeddyOG Mês atrás
Honestly, I was always dubious of Minecraft speedruns, being a completely randomly generated game with random everything, that is also easily programmable seems dubious for how iron clad older games are. Oh shit Billy Mitchell just entered the chat
Xaytana Mês atrás
The speedrunning side of this game really needs some kind of RNG recording. Something where you can take said recording, throw it into the world seed, and have the run fully simulated. Disparities in RNG code within the original run should produce inconsistencies in the simulated run. Similarly, having an in-game recording like this would also provide a timeline based on game ticks, which would immediately expose splices. Also have some code that can differentiate between natural spawns and unnatural spawns. This is really the only method to catch everything at once, the complexity of modifying a recording would be a deterrent, leaderboards would require this for a run to even qualify and depreciate current boards to legacy runs where records don't hold merit; if people want to cheat runs on a popular game, then the game needs to be policed to the point that it can't be cheated. I'm sure a mod could output this kind of data, along with a mod that could take this data and run it through a live recreation.
Jim Raynor
Jim Raynor Mês atrás
imagine if kotaku or "gaming journos" put in the kind of work Karl jobst does
Dexterity Mês atrás
I hope the client being made is going to be optional but give some better verification if you use it. for instance, next to runs using this speedrunning client, it would have a little checkmark or something implying it was verified from the source, so people can see if the top run is potentially a hack or whatever.
Lorenzo Mautino
Lorenzo Mautino Mês atrás
It's also funny that most cheaters start with some cheat towards luck, and then they don't got results so they increase the number of luck and even add hidden things in the game to make their time faster
TheOdMan Mês atrás
This makes me sad tbh, not that he confessed ofc, but how much was cheated and how many of those cheats would not have been detected unless he confessed. It really removes some of the joy of watching speedruns when you constently think "Is this legit?" I hope the countermeasures being developed can alleviate these issues.
FlyingStone Mon
FlyingStone Mon Mês atrás
I personally find cheat run inspecting to be incredibly fun, I barely watch normal runs unless they involve convoluted strategies But I'll admit TAS ones are my favorite, they're the funniest ones imo alongside the more obvious crude cheat splicing attempts
FinestFantasyVI Mês atrás
@The Monster Under Your Bed But we dont have the tools. If the cheats went undetected until the cheater confessed. Like who can tell the dolphin was planted there
The Monster Under Your Bed
Shouldn't make you sad. It should make you glad that you now have the tools to spot cheating and teach you skepticism and critical thinking.
ForeverLaxx Mês atrás
@MothGang It's sad that basic observation skills and knowledge about a subject is considered "looking too deep into something." No wonder the world is falling apart.
MothGang Mês atrás
@ForeverLaxx you’re looking way too deep into some random person you watched 1 video on
Israfel36 Mês atrás
There being no evidence that his brother hasn't cheated means literally nothing, you even address that earlier in the video. The fact that his brother came forward at all to explain how some of it was done raises loud alarm bells for me, at least. Considering how egregious this was no one should be given the benefit of the doubt.
RaptorJesus Mês atrás
Am I the only one who thinks it would be great to have a "cheat" category, where you aren't just going for the best time but also making your cheating hard or impossible to detect? So whichever run is the hardest to figure out is the best?
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