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Dune - Muad'dib - Extra Sci Fi - #4

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Charismatic leadership can conceal corruption, and Frank Herbert saw how dangerous this was in the political events he lived through. Leto Atreides, Valdimir Harkonnen, and Paul Atreides (Muad'dib) each represent different types of charismatic but very faulty leadership practices.
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6 Mar 2019

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Comentários 522
Extra Credits
Extra Credits Anos atrás
Keep an eye on our social media for news about the next season of Extra Sci Fi! There's still so many cool and interesting authors we want to cover, and thank you for joining us on this chronological ride through the history of science fiction. You can get the Extra Sci Fi art postcards set here (and let us know if we should make another set from the newer episodes!): store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-illustration-pack You can get the Extra Sci Fi soft logo t-shirt here: store.dftba.com/collections/extracredits/products/extra-sci-fi-logo-shirt Also, why not check out any of the books we've talked about on this show from your local library? bit.ly/ESF_List
Gabe the grourami Fish
This made me buy the book
꧂Oddish꧂
꧂Oddish꧂ Anos atrás
The tragedy of Paul is that, at the end of his life, the one person he hated more than even Baron Harkonnen... was himself. The one who unleashed the Fremen and instilled in them the fanaticism and self-righteousness. And the one who was unable to stop it. The one who abandoned his family so that he could be free. Paul truly died in the desert. The Preacher was his ghost to take verbal vengeance on his legacy. That is the tragedy... of Muad'dib.
LordBloodySoul
LordBloodySoul Anos atrás
God damn it, you're streaming while I am at work! D:
jihadthat777
jihadthat777 Anos atrás
Ah McCarthyism, the thing that AoC wants to bring back by 'making a list' of dems that dont agree with her like the authoritarian twat she pretends not to be.
Alejandro Garcia
Alejandro Garcia Anos atrás
Do 1984.
MMurillo A
MMurillo A 16 dias atrás
America 2020
david psalm bendula
sounds like social media influencers
Enesi Majebi
Enesi Majebi Mês atrás
Damn, kinda awkward that everything that Herbert was afraid of is kinda happening right now in America
anhero23
anhero23 Mês atrás
It's interesting that extra credits is able to understand what Frank Herbert was talking about, in terms of charismatic leaders. You guys are leftists with opinions, right? You realize the hypocrisy? Looking at oneself in the mirror is the hardest thing to do, I suppose.
Greco Cabanero
Greco Cabanero 3 meses atrás
That is why philippines has a Duterte.
Jacob Smith
Jacob Smith 3 meses atrás
America needs to watch this video and apply what they learned to selecting our representatives. (They're not supposed to be our leaders, but our representatives. They are supposed to represent the people, not lead them.)
MD0K
MD0K 3 meses atrás
The last part is what got me to read dune, and is the best summary of it. It is about a boy falling victim to destiny anf trying to do his best. It is about consequences.
Charlie Crome
Charlie Crome 4 meses atrás
Would have been interesting to see an analysis of the Worm God Leto II
Hermetic Xhaote
Hermetic Xhaote 4 meses atrás
I really want to try semuta
crowonthepowerlines
crowonthepowerlines 4 meses atrás
This feels more relevant today than ever before...
Rage Winterchill
Rage Winterchill 4 meses atrás
You could make a religio.....wait a minute
samhouston1979
samhouston1979 4 meses atrás
the spice must flow!
Midgard Eagle
Midgard Eagle 5 meses atrás
The duke reminds me of Obama (I like Obama, mind), while the baron reminds me of Trump.
reginaldino enchillada
reginaldino enchillada 8 meses atrás
A true masterpiece. Why is the first album/film/book the best one? Because their entire life experience has been drawn upon to create that art, that initial expression of their vision and duplicating the feat in one year is difficult. The first one took their whole life up till then, now to do a second one in a year or two? it can be done but, it's not going to be as good.
TheMrVengeance
TheMrVengeance 8 meses atrás
Are these book-club streams available somewhere in a stream archive? I'd love to watch them, but the VODs will have been deleted from Twitch by now.
Yiṣḥāq David
Yiṣḥāq David 8 meses atrás
Just finished reading Dune. The one thing I didnt like is how a year will go by from page to another without anything really being said. One chapter Paul just meets Chani then next he had a 2-year-old son with her? Also, the battle at the end was so not epic. They set the whole thing up and then skipped it. It's not written how little Leto died. They tell you and you are like what? When did that happen? It seems like nearing the end Hebert was just trying to get the book done and over. There are so many time jumps without proper explanation. Great book though but id rather read another 500 pages about what happened in those leaps of time. It was frustrated with the ending. Just my 2 cents.
R Wixel Barnwell
R Wixel Barnwell 9 meses atrás
Watching this makes me grateful for John the First of England. John the First by being a monster without the charisma to pull it off provoked the creation of the Magna Carta. If John the First had been brilliant, charismatic, powerful, or successful, England might have staid in the quagmire of absolute monarchy and the dissemination of power that has allowed for the creation of the United Kingdom might never have begun.
Vivek Kamal
Vivek Kamal 9 meses atrás
So basically: Charisma 10 = not so good
Adrian Webster
Adrian Webster 9 meses atrás
And unfortunately, I think it is in the last warning that Frank Herbert failed. He didn't really show the terrible consequences of the jihad in a meaningful way. A bunch of nameless people died, but since they are nameless we don't feel their deaths. Then he makes the Golden Path vision out to be correct instead of misguided and wrong. So instead of warning against charismatic leaders, the novels tell us that the prophets know better than everyone else and we should trust their visions in the end. Individual loss is to be sacrificed for the survival of the species. Paul is a hero for starting on the path and a failure for not seeing it through and Leto II is the "good hitler" because his tyranny saves the species. At least Alia is a nuanced and interesting character.
zazugee
zazugee 4 meses atrás
he coudnt finish his novels and they were continued under a different writer
Kumogakure42
Kumogakure42 9 meses atrás
The artwork is awesome!
Arshan
Arshan 11 meses atrás
This also plays into the radicalization of Fremen's baseline beliefs by Bene Gesserit and the Atreides, which end up blowing in their face by inadvertently creating a jihad across the stars - interesting parallel to real life
samualwatkins
samualwatkins Anos atrás
Donald trump is fucking Harkonan... Take that statement literally as much or as little as you like
Glen Wang
Glen Wang Anos atrás
5:03 - "You know nothing, Muad'Dib." XD
Kyle Henderson
Kyle Henderson Anos atrás
So that's how Trump got elected.
Jeff Hilton
Jeff Hilton Anos atrás
I like the 50's American view of the world, in part because of what it implies. If a good person listens to authority, and follows rules, then that implies duty on the part of the authority and those that make the rules, etc., to serve those that trust in them. The idea of "being a good person" in the traditional sense acts as a base case for a recursively defined societal structure where an individual's genuine attempts at personal responsibility and trust in others generates trust that can be placed in them, creating a solid foundation. When a person of authority breaks that trust, it either becomes the responsibility of that individual to rebuild trust, or it becomes the rest of society's job to reject that negative influence. I know a verse of scripture that puts it very well: "...The rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled, only upon the principles of righteousness. .. That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man." (Doctrine & Covenants 89: 36-37). The scripture speaks specifically to Godly authority, but the principle applies to secular authority as well.
soviet comrade
soviet comrade Anos atrás
I'm seeing that metro exodus's leaders are based off these novels
Venetian Scorn
Venetian Scorn Anos atrás
what a bunch of superficial crap
Howard Lanus
Howard Lanus Anos atrás
Hey can you guys do alternate history? Harry Turtledove, S.M. Stirling, and Robert J Sawyer are great authors here.
The Gavel is soundgavel
At this point I have to ask: Did you guys actually read the book or just copy Professor Edgy Angsts self attributing“progressive” college textbook for 2nd year freshmen?
Zach Shereck
Zach Shereck Anos atrás
*cough* The communist revolution was always a soviet dictatorship and was always going to be a soviet dictatorship. There was no "deterioration." *cough*
Angry Kittens
Angry Kittens Anos atrás
Daenerys was Muad'dib.
Rosa I Guess
Rosa I Guess Anos atrás
1:07 me
Aaron Hicks
Aaron Hicks Anos atrás
Did you really not mention anything about how Emperor Shaddam led by charisma based in tradition?
LappelDuvide
LappelDuvide Anos atrás
"Is there pain, Old Friend?" that line hurt me a little bit.
drizer4real
drizer4real Anos atrás
Great! Can you do a Foundation series as wel?
Stephanie Moore
Stephanie Moore Anos atrás
Thank you very well done!
cameron120587
cameron120587 Anos atrás
Were there any female science fiction writers apart from mary Shelly that did significant works in the genre through the early, pulp, and Modern ages? How about now?
Al C
Al C Anos atrás
SPOILERS. I never realized how ironic all of the characters’ deaths were. Leto died, disgraced, by poison with no one to see but the Baron. The Baron died trying to plead the Emperor to commit more genocide. Paul, bound to his religion by relying on his clairvoyance and walking into the desert as a blind man.
bemersonbakebarmen
bemersonbakebarmen Anos atrás
Is there a chapter on Kurt Voneigut and his beautiful prose?
Can you Unsubscribe me?
So even good people are bad.
ijonus
ijonus Anos atrás
Worst season so far, by a large margin. Huge disappointment.
Zacharie St-Pierre
Zacharie St-Pierre Anos atrás
Leto's description applies to justin Trudeau and the baron's applies to trump
Steven Neiman
Steven Neiman Anos atrás
That second one should sound familiar to every American right about now.
Reid Wallace
Reid Wallace Anos atrás
I need moar of this in my life.
bearianna
bearianna Anos atrás
Ummmmm... I cannot believe this, but I currently have a secondhand copy of dune in my possession! 💃🏼 I think my dad bought it from our library’s bookstore, which means it’s ours. 😄
MrOvertoad
MrOvertoad Anos atrás
You forgot the Bene Gesserit. The ones who created the myth behind the coming freman savior/profit Muad'dib. They seeded the legend a 1000 years before Muad'dib and proceeded to use selective breading in order to make a super being they could control who would be Muad'dib. Many times its the power behind the throne that should be most feared.
Patrick McGraw
Patrick McGraw Anos atrás
Since you're doing apocalypses next season, please please PLEASE cover Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun. It's a perfect fit for your series.
Yora
Yora Anos atrás
Baron Donald Harkonen.
Patrick Milewski
Patrick Milewski Anos atrás
The three charismatic leadership styles: Leadership based purely on performance and image: Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama. Leadership based on pandering: Donald Trump, Emmanuel Macron. Leadership based on spirituality/religious devotion: Logan Paul, Sargon Of Akkad, Pewdiepie?
Monadic Pastoralist
مؤدّب
Thomas K 96
Thomas K 96 Anos atrás
More Lord of the Rings videos please.
LocalHeretic 1127
LocalHeretic 1127 Anos atrás
Leto Atreides was not perfect but I still love him the most. "FOR THE DUKE!"
The Bronze Age of DC Comics
So, Reagan, Trump, and Khomeini, respectively.
loszhor
loszhor Anos atrás
Well made! I really liked this series but this one was my favorite!
Leonidas Noble
Leonidas Noble Anos atrás
I realize that I'm about to speak heresy, but I don't believe Lord of the Rings should be elevated to the level of Dune. I am not saying that Lord of the Rings shouldn't be revered, but rather Dune is more than science-fiction or even fantasy. Dune is a commentary on the human condition. Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, is more properly placed in the company Gilgamesh or Beowulf (which was the author's intention). There will never be a time that Dune will not be relevant to the times or that Lord of the Rings ever will be. All in all, well done (CBG19 did it better). May open hostilities begin.
Tuptastic
Tuptastic Anos atrás
When you have a 20 in charisma
Arvid P.
Arvid P. Anos atrás
Oh no, the terrible waiting time begins anew!
Roman Nardone
Roman Nardone Anos atrás
Even the God Emperor of Dune showed the faults in total supremacy and near omniscient of governance. Leto II personified how we chafe even under perfect peace.
Zebra Outpost VA/Sorrow106
Does anything get thoughts of Obama? Liked him but I keep forgetting about the air strikes he called and etc since how charismatic he is
ElTrolldego
ElTrolldego Anos atrás
is 'Vladimir Harkonnen' too hard to pronounce?
Sort of
Sort of Anos atrás
Muad'dib' has always been the one for me. "The hands move, the lips move -- Ideas gush from his words, And his eyes devour! He is an island of Selfdom". --description from 'A Manual of Muad'Dib' by the Princess Irulan.
Peblo Music
Peblo Music Anos atrás
2:50 oh my! The butlerian jihad failed!
Wabi Sabi
Wabi Sabi Anos atrás
I'd hate to see a leader who combines ALL of those styles. It would probably be a tremendous disaster, like the world has never seen. Sad! Why do I suddenly want Cheetos?
Mordalon
Mordalon Anos atrás
God Emperor Leto II is basically this.
Wabi Sabi
Wabi Sabi Anos atrás
@Keyser94 I haven't actually read the book yet, so I was basing that joke purely on this video.
Keyser94
Keyser94 Anos atrás
I think that you are mistaken, he is more Shadam Corrino than Leto, Paul or even Vladimir Harkonnen.
shyguy
shyguy Anos atrás
Make a video about Pythagoras
West Kagle
West Kagle Anos atrás
. People would be willing to go along with dangerous Ideas if they were put forth by charismatic individuals........looking at you Alexandria Occasional Cortex and your Green New Deal.
Amber Sutton
Amber Sutton Anos atrás
Woo dystopia and apocalypse! Can't wait :D
Johannes Wiegerinck
You guys have to address that Paul goes terrorist in the end and how terrorism fabricating imbecile fear nowdays is super consequential. He does. He says he will fuck up civilization back to the stone age, UNLESS... Thats also a sobering lesson.
Johannes Wiegerinck
Philosophy is important, but tactics are as well. And super relevant for contemporary dynamics.
Roxor128
Roxor128 Anos atrás
I think that's a good warning: Never trust the charismatic.
Tim Sullivan
Tim Sullivan Anos atrás
GigawingsVideo," back when I was 13, my opinion of "Dune" owed little (read: zilch) to an appreciation for Herbert's artful delivery of a timely cautionary tale - instead, I was just a kid who was blown away by a super-cool action story - one that fueled countless hours of adventure among the sprawling expanse of dunes separating our rented cottage from the shore of Lake Huron's Georgian Bay. Many a summer's eve saw valiant Fremen crawling stealthily along the strand, on their silent quest for a hidden cache of Spice (a.k.a. packs of "Lik-a-made" powdered candy), ever-alert for noise-guided hands or feet of the blind-folded Sandworms, whose ears were pricked for the slightest sound which would launch them blindly rolling towards the source, arms and legs flailing madly about in hopes of scoring the slightest touch - spelling instant death for that unlucky Freman. The fatal touch of the Sandworms could only be evaded while crawling, UNLESS in desperation, a Freman called out, "STANDING UP!", allowing them all to now stand and run freely about in a frantic spice search. After a 3 second countdown, all Sandworms, now fully-lethal thanks to the vibrations from Freman feet, remove blindfolds, jump to their feet and set about decimating the ranks of the searchers. Because Sandworms could not be killed, the Freman death rate progressed geometrically meaning without a lucky quick spice find, very soon ALL worms would be after one Freman. So... Sandworms ruled!
Tim Sullivan
Tim Sullivan Anos atrás
@storerestore Do I detect a note of regret here? It sounds like you might have a real sorry storerestore story. (Sorry...)
storerestore
storerestore Anos atrás
I wish I was 13
sette
sette Anos atrás
Here in Brazil we have a Vladimir as president. He got elected by the people through exactly the way you said how it's dangerous to us. People just never learn, I guess... Amazing video as always, guys.
Paul Perkins
Paul Perkins Anos atrás
No, it's Russia that has a Vladimir as President. In more ways than one.
Texasp12
Texasp12 Anos atrás
How is Bolsonaro can be like Vlad, but doesn't make him Vlad.
FunkyDude 08
FunkyDude 08 Anos atrás
Hey, if you are doing apocalypses, you should totally do Alas, Babylon, by Pat Frank
Jonathan
Jonathan Anos atrás
hmmm... so, what makes a good leader? I thought people like Leto should be able to rule because they will take care of us, good people that take care of others, isn't that a sign of someone who should lead? to spread the good? Though yes I understand that ideas and what you do with the people that hold you up and pursue is important, if it is a good an actually just cause why don't they lead?
Name Real name
Name Real name Anos atrás
Do an episode on the Battle of Britain
Brian Trammel
Brian Trammel Anos atrás
There's a book club?! I did not know this!
ImrazorZodd
ImrazorZodd Anos atrás
I love Dune and your analysis of it. Thanks.
Silent Dawn
Silent Dawn Anos atrás
But democracy enables charismatic rulers, so what do we do?
Silent Dawn
Silent Dawn Anos atrás
@Mordalon This is no solution for our problem?
Mordalon
Mordalon Anos atrás
The Golden Path is the solution given in the later novels, specifically the result of Leto II's rule, The Scattering. Basically, Humanity needs to be so spread out across the galaxy that no single person can rule over or effect all of humanity.
druidboy76
druidboy76 Anos atrás
Obama.
GigawingsVideo
GigawingsVideo Anos atrás
So according to this video: Obama is Bravure type of leader and Trump is Vice type of leader. Obama has good intention but there's time when he had to make some rules to appease both Democrats and Republicans. Trump on the other hand pushed the idea of country pride and greed or lust for economic dominance.
Ser Davos Seaworth
Ser Davos Seaworth Anos atrás
Fun Fact : Muad'dib means "Respectful" in Arabic.
Yiṣḥāq David
Yiṣḥāq David 8 meses atrás
The whole book has so many Arabic/Islamic themes. I also realize how much Lucas stole from Dune. Its incredible. Basically the same story with a mystic force and light sabers.
ϟLightning Boltϟ
ϟLightning Boltϟ 9 meses atrás
Yep, there is a lot of Middle Eastern references in the Dune series!
Lazarus1095
Lazarus1095 Anos atrás
I've got to say, this artwork has become amazing. I'm actually watching it as much for the images as for the dialogue.
Lazarus1095
Lazarus1095 Anos atrás
OK, so it's by a guy named David Hueso...
James Estrada
James Estrada Anos atrás
That's it?! This season started well, then ended with a fizzle. Sorry guys, I somehow expected more.
PsychoLucario
PsychoLucario Anos atrás
yaaaaaaaah paul was bad at the whole ruler thing. His dad was kind of bad at it as well, though we're given to believe that everybody was bad at being rulers in Dune
Haannibal777
Haannibal777 Anos atrás
The end is fine, as long as Extra SciFi doesn't end!
Independent minded 1
You guys better be starting with the closest thing we have to reality in terms of dystopia, cyberpunk!!
jeric_ synergy
jeric_ synergy Anos atrás
I'm pretty sure North Korea is the closest thing we have to a dystopia in reality. With Saudi Arabia close behind.
Harvey Herrera
Harvey Herrera Anos atrás
I love everything thing you do, just keep doing it!
Dimir Doppelganger
Dimir Doppelganger Anos atrás
"Soviet dictatorship" I swear the anticommunist equivalence of the USSR to Nazi Germany just gets dumber and dumber.
Midnorme
Midnorme Anos atrás
I'm loving this series!
sabata2
sabata2 Anos atrás
So, in order we have: 1) Power by playing to Image (Trump/R) 2) Power by playing to Desire (Bernie/AOC/D) 3) Power by playing to Deific power (Religious Zealotry/Papal Fiat/Muslim Jihad) *phew* I didn't need a *DARKER* perspective of our current world, EC, but you sure gave me one.
Mordalon
Mordalon Anos atrás
I would reverse Trump and Bernie. Trump is the one that plays into the desires of a certain portion of the population and makes them feel like their desires/opinions are right and should be indulged.
Keyser94
Keyser94 Anos atrás
Good thing that you don't leave outside of the U. S., because people would laugh at your face, and putting Sanders and Cortez in the same category as the corporate Democrats is laughable, the corporate Democrats pander more to their rich donors than their constituents.
Alejandro Daza
Alejandro Daza Anos atrás
YAAAY I can't wait!!!
Isori
Isori Anos atrás
A very appropriate focus for a very "interesting" time.
Awbbie
Awbbie Anos atrás
This series has been fantastic, thank you for making this.
Damonsen
Damonsen Anos atrás
I have to admit I am disappointed Extra Sci Fi will not be covering the rest of the Dune books, or at least the first four books.
Phill
Phill Anos atrás
Honestly, Paul gets all the attention but nobody gives Leto II the time of day... And I personally like his story more.
Mordalon
Mordalon Anos atrás
This is more covering the first book.
enoughofyourkoicarp
Oh, now it makes sense, "they're going to start with the end? What?" Thanks for clearing that up, it's had me baffled for a few weeks now. :P
decentradical
decentradical Anos atrás
Leto Artreides is actually an anagram of Justin Trudeau. The more you know.
Keyser94
Keyser94 Anos atrás
Really? A corporate centrist like Justin Trudeau? He is all smiles and politeness meanwhile he screw the middle class and the poor, giving it all to the rich.
pamesman
pamesman Anos atrás
I'm going to skip this one episode, I was just starting the book when you started this series and surprisingly I haven't had a bad time due to the spoilers here, but I feel where this is going and I prefer to read that myself first ( for I am in a blind spot of time, as if in a valley when you can't see past the mountains of the future, but every choice leads to yihad)
solidjb
solidjb Anos atrás
What about the Ordos tho?)
varana312
varana312 Anos atrás
The Ordos are an invention of the video game series. (Well, the name appears somewhere in supplementary material, but everything else is made up by Westwood&Co.)
Jacob Thompson
Jacob Thompson Anos atrás
Spice SANDS! its SANDS! Spice mines are star wars
Cameron Barge
Cameron Barge Anos atrás
Nicely done!
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